Disclaimers: - I haven't looked at it in detail (at all, really) - It is GPL2 (although perhaps Zoa and co can budge on this) http://www.venturevoip.com/news.php?rssid=2364 Any thoughts? -- Kristian Kielhofner http://www.astlinux.org http://blog.krisk.org http://www.star2star.com http://www.submityoursip.com http://www.voalte.com
We have SpanDSP and its LGPL. /b On Mar 8, 2010, at 9:40 AM, Kristian Kielhofner wrote:
Disclaimers:
- I haven't looked at it in detail (at all, really) - It is GPL2 (although perhaps Zoa and co can budge on this)
http://www.venturevoip.com/news.php?rssid=2364
Any thoughts?
-- Kristian Kielhofner http://www.astlinux.org http://blog.krisk.org http://www.star2star.com http://www.submityoursip.com http://www.voalte.com
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
On 03/08/2010 11:40 PM, Kristian Kielhofner wrote:
Disclaimers:
- I haven't looked at it in detail (at all, really) - It is GPL2 (although perhaps Zoa and co can budge on this)
http://www.venturevoip.com/news.php?rssid=2364
Any thoughts?
We already have a better FAX engine than that. What we struggle to find is the time to properly integrate it with FS. Steve
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Steve Underwood <steveu@coppice.org> wrote:
We already have a better FAX engine than that. What we struggle to find is the time to properly integrate it with FS.
Steve
Thank you, that's what I was expecting. Without going into grueling detail it isn't clear why T.38 gateway functionality (for example) is missing in FreeSWITCH. I know SpanDSP is available and most likely has this ability. I just wasn't sure why it's missing in FS. This is also a mere curiosity for me; I don't have much interest in fax functionality and I don't follow it too closely. Thanks again for the response and explanation. -- Kristian Kielhofner http://www.astlinux.org http://blog.krisk.org http://www.star2star.com http://www.submityoursip.com http://www.voalte.com
Hi you could also use newest trunk of t38modem + trunk of OPAL. The newest trunk version(s) use SpanDSP as fax engine and it works more reliable than the previous t38 engine (I think it was integrated in OPAL). It also supports fallback to t30 audio fax if you're connected to ISDN network. Together with HylaFAX+ the success rate is ok (unfortunately not perfect). Klaus -----Original Message----- From: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] On Behalf Of Kristian Kielhofner Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 5:25 PM To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Attrafax On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Steve Underwood <steveu@coppice.org> wrote:
We already have a better FAX engine than that. What we struggle to find is the time to properly integrate it with FS.
Steve
Thank you, that's what I was expecting. Without going into grueling detail it isn't clear why T.38 gateway functionality (for example) is missing in FreeSWITCH. I know SpanDSP is available and most likely has this ability. I just wasn't sure why it's missing in FS. This is also a mere curiosity for me; I don't have much interest in fax functionality and I don't follow it too closely. Thanks again for the response and explanation. -- Kristian Kielhofner http://www.astlinux.org http://blog.krisk.org http://www.star2star.com http://www.submityoursip.com http://www.voalte.com _______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
Thats unacceptable!!! Wait its faxing... can't we just let it DIE already?? They have this thing called email... you should check it out... works great... even lets you attach video, audio and color images.... oh and text... dreary old text.... but hey you can mark it all up in HTML and fancy fonts now and make it anoying^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpretty. /b On Mar 8, 2010, at 3:54 PM, Klaus Hochlehnert wrote:
Together with HylaFAX+ the success rate is ok (unfortunately not perfect).
Believe it or not... I heard from people out there who don't have email. But they use faxing... -----Original Message----- From: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] On Behalf Of Brian West Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 11:02 PM To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Attrafax Thats unacceptable!!! Wait its faxing... can't we just let it DIE already?? They have this thing called email... you should check it out... works great... even lets you attach video, audio and color images.... oh and text... dreary old text.... but hey you can mark it all up in HTML and fancy fonts now and make it anoying^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpretty. /b On Mar 8, 2010, at 3:54 PM, Klaus Hochlehnert wrote:
Together with HylaFAX+ the success rate is ok (unfortunately not perfect).
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Klaus Hochlehnert <Mailings@kh-dev.de>wrote:
Believe it or not... I heard from people out there who don't have email. But they use faxing...
Whenever you find people like that, ask them if they've ever heard of the Internet. I hear this Internet thing has a bright future. -MC
Don't know about that my parents always told me that computers were a waste of time and the internet was never gonna be a big deal. So I'm guessing I'm lucky I didn't listen to my parents. /b On Mar 8, 2010, at 4:34 PM, Michael Collins wrote:
Whenever you find people like that, ask them if they've ever heard of the Internet. I hear this Internet thing has a bright future. -MC
While I'd love to see FAXing just die, especially with the amount of headache associated with it, the reality is that specific organizations still rely on it heavily on a daily basis (ie Health Care and Banking/Finance Industry). Plus they can legally get away with FAXing personal data directly between machines, since the FAX transmission doesn't seem to be directly covered by all their respective privacy regultions (ie HIPAA, PCI, etc.), unless of course it's a FAX-to-email service. Plus most of these organizations just don't have the internal expertise to setup end-to-end encrypted email nor the impetus to deal with it, since FAXing works fine in their eyes. I think it's going to be around quite a while longer unless they actually stop making the FAX machines and force people to use something else. Cheers, Gabe On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Brian West <brian@freeswitch.org> wrote:
Thats unacceptable!!! Wait its faxing... can't we just let it DIE already?? They have this thing called email... you should check it out... works great... even lets you attach video, audio and color images.... oh and text... dreary old text.... but hey you can mark it all up in HTML and fancy fonts now and make it anoying^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpretty.
/b
On Mar 8, 2010, at 3:54 PM, Klaus Hochlehnert wrote:
Together with HylaFAX+ the success rate is ok (unfortunately not perfect).
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
There is no such thing as security when humans are involved in the relay of information. Thats fact. HIPAA is a joke. PCI is a joke... they all don't get it. Humans are involved its not secure. /b On Mar 8, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Gabriel Kuri wrote:
While I'd love to see FAXing just die, especially with the amount of headache associated with it, the reality is that specific organizations still rely on it heavily on a daily basis (ie Health Care and Banking/Finance Industry). Plus they can legally get away with FAXing personal data directly between machines, since the FAX transmission doesn't seem to be directly covered by all their respective privacy regultions (ie HIPAA, PCI, etc.), unless of course it's a FAX-to-email service. Plus most of these organizations just don't have the internal expertise to setup end-to-end encrypted email nor the impetus to deal with it, since FAXing works fine in their eyes. I think it's going to be around quite a while longer unless they actually stop making the FAX machines and force people to use something else.
Cheers, Gabe
they just want to believe it is :) .. thats it. T. On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Brian West <brian@freeswitch.org> wrote:
There is no such thing as security when humans are involved in the relay of information. Thats fact.
HIPAA is a joke. PCI is a joke... they all don't get it. Humans are involved its not secure.
/b
On Mar 8, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Gabriel Kuri wrote:
While I'd love to see FAXing just die, especially with the amount of headache associated with it, the reality is that specific organizations still rely on it heavily on a daily basis (ie Health Care and Banking/Finance Industry). Plus they can legally get away with FAXing personal data directly between machines, since the FAX transmission doesn't seem to be directly covered by all their respective privacy regultions (ie HIPAA, PCI, etc.), unless of course it's a FAX-to-email service. Plus most of these organizations just don't have the internal expertise to setup end-to-end encrypted email nor the impetus to deal with it, since FAXing works fine in their eyes. I think it's going to be around quite a while longer unless they actually stop making the FAX machines and force people to use something else.
Cheers, Gabe
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
We have a mod_fax for t30 and work on t38 is underway. So we already acknowledge that I guess. On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 6:10 AM, Tihomir Culjaga <tculjaga@gmail.com> wrote:
they just want to believe it is :) .. thats it.
T.
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Brian West <brian@freeswitch.org> wrote:
There is no such thing as security when humans are involved in the relay of information. Thats fact.
HIPAA is a joke. PCI is a joke... they all don't get it. Humans are involved its not secure.
/b
On Mar 8, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Gabriel Kuri wrote:
While I'd love to see FAXing just die, especially with the amount of headache associated with it, the reality is that specific organizations still rely on it heavily on a daily basis (ie Health Care and Banking/Finance Industry). Plus they can legally get away with FAXing personal data directly between machines, since the FAX transmission doesn't seem to be directly covered by all their respective privacy regultions (ie HIPAA, PCI, etc.), unless of course it's a FAX-to-email service. Plus most of these organizations just don't have the internal expertise to setup end-to-end encrypted email nor the impetus to deal with it, since FAXing works fine in their eyes. I think it's going to be around quite a while longer unless they actually stop making the FAX machines and force people to use something else.
Cheers, Gabe
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
-- Anthony Minessale II FreeSWITCH http://www.freeswitch.org/ ClueCon http://www.cluecon.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/FreeSWITCH_wire AIM: anthm MSN:anthony_minessale@hotmail.com <MSN%3Aanthony_minessale@hotmail.com> GTALK/JABBER/PAYPAL:anthony.minessale@gmail.com<PAYPAL%3Aanthony.minessale@gmail.com> IRC: irc.freenode.net #freeswitch FreeSWITCH Developer Conference sip:888@conference.freeswitch.org <sip%3A888@conference.freeswitch.org> iax:guest@conference.freeswitch.org/888 googletalk:conf+888@conference.freeswitch.org<googletalk%3Aconf%2B888@conference.freeswitch.org> pstn:+19193869900
mod_fax is ready andd in production no T38 only T30 Le 11/03/2010 18:15, Tihomir Culjaga a écrit :
On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 6:11 PM, Anthony Minessale <anthony.minessale@gmail.com <mailto:anthony.minessale@gmail.com>> wrote:
We have a mod_fax for t30 and work on t38 is underway. So we already acknowledge that I guess.
anything ready for testing ?
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
Hi Brian and everyone in FS list, Believe or not in some countries FAX is legal document in court and email is not. As a tech guy I hate faxing but I live in world full with lawyer and again because I am tech person when faxing is broken I have problems :( P.S. This is just an opinion and not related to this lovely project ;) 2010/3/9 Brian West <brian@freeswitch.org>
There is no such thing as security when humans are involved in the relay of information. Thats fact.
HIPAA is a joke. PCI is a joke... they all don't get it. Humans are involved its not secure.
/b
On Mar 8, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Gabriel Kuri wrote:
While I'd love to see FAXing just die, especially with the amount of headache associated with it, the reality is that specific organizations still rely on it heavily on a daily basis (ie Health Care and Banking/Finance Industry). Plus they can legally get away with FAXing personal data directly between machines, since the FAX transmission doesn't seem to be directly covered by all their respective privacy regultions (ie HIPAA, PCI, etc.), unless of course it's a FAX-to-email service. Plus most of these organizations just don't have the internal expertise to setup end-to-end encrypted email nor the impetus to deal with it, since FAXing works fine in their eyes. I think it's going to be around quite a while longer unless they actually stop making the FAX machines and force people to use something else.
Cheers, Gabe
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
Me too. I'd also like to see it die. But honestly I know a lot of small and medium business companies that really rely on faxing. And for some parts it's much easier than using email. Just say if you get a piece of paper from your tax office and want to send it to your tax consultant. - Put it in the fax and send it or - Scan this piece of paper, save it to the disk, find it (which is btw the most challenging part for most people) and send it by email (most SMB companies don't even have a scanner attached to their PC) So most people prefer the faxing way... J Klaus From: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] On Behalf Of Gabriel Kuri Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 11:39 PM To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Attrafax While I'd love to see FAXing just die, especially with the amount of headache associated with it, the reality is that specific organizations still rely on it heavily on a daily basis (ie Health Care and Banking/Finance Industry). Plus they can legally get away with FAXing personal data directly between machines, since the FAX transmission doesn't seem to be directly covered by all their respective privacy regultions (ie HIPAA, PCI, etc.), unless of course it's a FAX-to-email service. Plus most of these organizations just don't have the internal expertise to setup end-to-end encrypted email nor the impetus to deal with it, since FAXing works fine in their eyes. I think it's going to be around quite a while longer unless they actually stop making the FAX machines and force people to use something else. Cheers, Gabe On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Brian West <brian@freeswitch.org<mailto:brian@freeswitch.org>> wrote: Thats unacceptable!!! Wait its faxing... can't we just let it DIE already?? They have this thing called email... you should check it out... works great... even lets you attach video, audio and color images.... oh and text... dreary old text.... but hey you can mark it all up in HTML and fancy fonts now and make it anoying^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpretty. /b On Mar 8, 2010, at 3:54 PM, Klaus Hochlehnert wrote:
Together with HylaFAX+ the success rate is ok (unfortunately not perfect).
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org<mailto:FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org> http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
Quite. Douglas Adams hit many nails on the head: here's one of them: "We are stuck with technology when what we really want is just stuff that works." If you want a real challenge, try to fax a document using a WiFi scanner, a Linux box and Pamfax (or pretty much any other online fax service): by the time you get to xsane, you will be.. --Dave Me too. I'd also like to see it die. But honestly I know a lot of small and medium business companies that really rely on faxing. And for some parts it's much easier than using email. Just say if you get a piece of paper from your tax office and want to send it to your tax consultant. - Put it in the fax and send it or - Scan this piece of paper, save it to the disk, find it (which is btw the most challenging part for most people) and send it by email (most SMB companies don't even have a scanner attached to their PC) So most people prefer the faxing way... J Klaus From: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] On Behalf Of Gabriel Kuri Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 11:39 PM To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Attrafax While I'd love to see FAXing just die, especially with the amount of headache associated with it, the reality is that specific organizations still rely on it heavily on a daily basis (ie Health Care and Banking/Finance Industry). Plus they can legally get away with FAXing personal data directly between machines, since the FAX transmission doesn't seem to be directly covered by all their respective privacy regultions (ie HIPAA, PCI, etc.), unless of course it's a FAX-to-email service. Plus most of these organizations just don't have the internal expertise to setup end-to-end encrypted email nor the impetus to deal with it, since FAXing works fine in their eyes. I think it's going to be around quite a while longer unless they actually stop making the FAX machines and force people to use something else. Cheers, Gabe On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Brian West <brian@freeswitch.org> wrote: Thats unacceptable!!! Wait its faxing... can't we just let it DIE already?? They have this thing called email... you should check it out... works great... even lets you attach video, audio and color images.... oh and text... dreary old text.... but hey you can mark it all up in HTML and fancy fonts now and make it anoying^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpretty. /b On Mar 8, 2010, at 3:54 PM, Klaus Hochlehnert wrote:
Together with HylaFAX+ the success rate is ok (unfortunately not perfect).
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Klaus Hochlehnert <Mailings@kh-dev.de>wrote:
Me too. I’d also like to see it die.
But honestly I know a lot of small and medium business companies that really rely on faxing.
And for some parts it’s much easier than using email. Just say if you get a piece of paper from your tax office and want to send it to your tax consultant.
- Put it in the fax and send it
or
- Scan this piece of paper, save it to the disk, find it (which is btw the most challenging part for most people) and
Or get a device that will just do the scan & email in one fell swoop. You could even encrypt before sending and then the person would have to contact you to get the key before opening it. Not 100% foolproof but it would prevent the silly, oops, I sent your personal information to the wrong email address/fax machine. Just think, you could have the convenience of a fax and relatively secure storage of incoming and outgoing transmissions. Of course, wanting to cling to 1970's technology is something I can understand. Who wouldn't want to keep all those Bee Gees and Abba LP's? -MC
And don't forget the propensity of (wholesale) VoIP providers to require an NDA to be faxed (or, if you're lucky, scanned and e-mailed) before discussing pricing. Without wishing to digress further, I find this utterly absurd, and I've yet to find a satisfactory explanation of why it should be. --Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Gabriel Kuri To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Attrafax While I'd love to see FAXing just die, especially with the amount of headache associated with it, the reality is that specific organizations still rely on it heavily on a daily basis (ie Health Care and Banking/Finance Industry). Plus they can legally get away with FAXing personal data directly between machines, since the FAX transmission doesn't seem to be directly covered by all their respective privacy regultions (ie HIPAA, PCI, etc.), unless of course it's a FAX-to-email service. Plus most of these organizations just don't have the internal expertise to setup end-to-end encrypted email nor the impetus to deal with it, since FAXing works fine in their eyes. I think it's going to be around quite a while longer unless they actually stop making the FAX machines and force people to use something else. Cheers, Gabe On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Brian West <brian@freeswitch.org> wrote: Thats unacceptable!!! Wait its faxing... can't we just let it DIE already?? They have this thing called email... you should check it out... works great... even lets you attach video, audio and color images.... oh and text... dreary old text.... but hey you can mark it all up in HTML and fancy fonts now and make it anoying^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpretty. /b On Mar 8, 2010, at 3:54 PM, Klaus Hochlehnert wrote: > Together with HylaFAX+ the success rate is ok (unfortunately not perfect). _______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
Why on earth do you need an NDA for prices or any info a provider can send you... sounds pretty lame to me... /b On Mar 8, 2010, at 5:01 PM, David Knell wrote:
And don't forget the propensity of (wholesale) VoIP providers to require an NDA to be faxed (or, if you're lucky, scanned and e-mailed) before discussing pricing.
Without wishing to digress further, I find this utterly absurd, and I've yet to find a satisfactory explanation of why it should be.
--Dave
There exists a large number of companies that make large profits largely because they sell based on what they think the customer will pay. NDAs keep customers from comparing prices, and competitors from competing on price. This has been a pretty common telecom practice, though not NDA specifically. This is why the "let me see a copy of your phone bill" line is so ill-advised to be substantiated when talking to a new provider. If you give them your phone bill, they know exactly where the bar must be set to win. -Tod Hansmann On 3/8/2010 4:05 PM, Brian West wrote:
Why on earth do you need an NDA for prices or any info a provider can send you... sounds pretty lame to me...
/b
On Mar 8, 2010, at 5:01 PM, David Knell wrote:
And don't forget the propensity of (wholesale) VoIP providers to require an NDA to be faxed (or, if you're lucky, scanned and e-mailed) before discussing pricing. Without wishing to digress further, I find this utterly absurd, and I've yet to find a satisfactory explanation of why it should be. --Dave
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
All these threads seem to go off on on tangents, seems at least a lot of people are reading it so..... This thread brought to you by ClueCon MMX! register today http://www.cluecon.com Hey, it was worth a shot, maybe we can do a presentation on t38 in FS (if we ever get the time to finish it). On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Tod Hansmann <freeswitch.org@todandlorna.com
wrote:
There exists a large number of companies that make large profits largely because they sell based on what they think the customer will pay. NDAs keep customers from comparing prices, and competitors from competing on price. This has been a pretty common telecom practice, though not NDA specifically. This is why the "let me see a copy of your phone bill" line is so ill-advised to be substantiated when talking to a new provider. If you give them your phone bill, they know exactly where the bar must be set to win.
-Tod Hansmann
On 3/8/2010 4:05 PM, Brian West wrote:
Why on earth do you need an NDA for prices or any info a provider can send you... sounds pretty lame to me...
/b
On Mar 8, 2010, at 5:01 PM, David Knell wrote:
And don't forget the propensity of (wholesale) VoIP providers to require an NDA to be faxed (or, if you're lucky, scanned and e-mailed) before discussing pricing.
Without wishing to digress further, I find this utterly absurd, and I've yet to find a satisfactory explanation of why it should be.
--Dave
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.orghttp://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-usershttp://www.frees...
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
-- Anthony Minessale II FreeSWITCH http://www.freeswitch.org/ ClueCon http://www.cluecon.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/FreeSWITCH_wire AIM: anthm MSN:anthony_minessale@hotmail.com <MSN%3Aanthony_minessale@hotmail.com> GTALK/JABBER/PAYPAL:anthony.minessale@gmail.com<PAYPAL%3Aanthony.minessale@gmail.com> IRC: irc.freenode.net #freeswitch FreeSWITCH Developer Conference sip:888@conference.freeswitch.org <sip%3A888@conference.freeswitch.org> iax:guest@conference.freeswitch.org/888 googletalk:conf+888@conference.freeswitch.org<googletalk%3Aconf%2B888@conference.freeswitch.org> pstn:+19193869900
Good idea... But why don't you send a fax to everyone... ;-) From: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Minessale Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:57 AM To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Attrafax All these threads seem to go off on on tangents, seems at least a lot of people are reading it so..... This thread brought to you by ClueCon MMX! register today http://www.cluecon.com Hey, it was worth a shot, maybe we can do a presentation on t38 in FS (if we ever get the time to finish it). On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Tod Hansmann <freeswitch.org<http://freeswitch.org>@todandlorna.com<http://todandlorna.com>> wrote: There exists a large number of companies that make large profits largely because they sell based on what they think the customer will pay. NDAs keep customers from comparing prices, and competitors from competing on price. This has been a pretty common telecom practice, though not NDA specifically. This is why the "let me see a copy of your phone bill" line is so ill-advised to be substantiated when talking to a new provider. If you give them your phone bill, they know exactly where the bar must be set to win. -Tod Hansmann On 3/8/2010 4:05 PM, Brian West wrote: Why on earth do you need an NDA for prices or any info a provider can send you... sounds pretty lame to me... /b On Mar 8, 2010, at 5:01 PM, David Knell wrote: And don't forget the propensity of (wholesale) VoIP providers to require an NDA to be faxed (or, if you're lucky, scanned and e-mailed) before discussing pricing. Without wishing to digress further, I find this utterly absurd, and I've yet to find a satisfactory explanation of why it should be. --Dave _______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org<mailto:FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org> http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org _______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org<mailto:FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org> http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org -- Anthony Minessale II FreeSWITCH http://www.freeswitch.org/ ClueCon http://www.cluecon.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/FreeSWITCH_wire AIM: anthm MSN:anthony_minessale@hotmail.com<mailto:MSN%3Aanthony_minessale@hotmail.com> GTALK/JABBER/PAYPAL:anthony.minessale@gmail.com<mailto:PAYPAL%3Aanthony.minessale@gmail.com> IRC: irc.freenode.net<http://irc.freenode.net> #freeswitch FreeSWITCH Developer Conference sip:888@conference.freeswitch.org<mailto:sip%3A888@conference.freeswitch.org> iax:guest@conference.freeswitch.org/888<http://iax:guest@conference.freeswitch.org/888> googletalk:conf+888@conference.freeswitch.org<mailto:googletalk%3Aconf%2B888@conference.freeswitch.org> pstn:+19193869900
Hi Tod, You might be right in certain circumstances, but, in wholesale telecoms, it's pretty easy to get a good idea of where rates for particular destinations are. Find a collection of ratecards by typing 'wholesale sip termination' into Google and it quickly becomes pretty obvious what's competitive and what isn't. NDAs are completely superfluous, especially considering that so much buying is done on price. If I've not got a good reason to want to terminate traffic through you (i.e. you're not AT&T or Verizon or the like), then I'm unlikely to want to go to the trouble of signing an NDA just to see how much your product costs. --Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Tod Hansmann To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 8:30 PM Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Attrafax There exists a large number of companies that make large profits largely because they sell based on what they think the customer will pay. NDAs keep customers from comparing prices, and competitors from competing on price. This has been a pretty common telecom practice, though not NDA specifically. This is why the "let me see a copy of your phone bill" line is so ill-advised to be substantiated when talking to a new provider. If you give them your phone bill, they know exactly where the bar must be set to win. -Tod Hansmann On 3/8/2010 4:05 PM, Brian West wrote: Why on earth do you need an NDA for prices or any info a provider can send you... sounds pretty lame to me... /b On Mar 8, 2010, at 5:01 PM, David Knell wrote: And don't forget the propensity of (wholesale) VoIP providers to require an NDA to be faxed (or, if you're lucky, scanned and e-mailed) before discussing pricing. Without wishing to digress further, I find this utterly absurd, and I've yet to find a satisfactory explanation of why it should be. --Dave _______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
On 03/09/2010 07:05 AM, Brian West wrote:
Why on earth do you need an NDA for prices or any info a provider can send you... sounds pretty lame to me...
/b Lame? The essence of effective negotiating is to keep all the parties involved divided, and each thinking they got a great deal.
"Don't tell the others about this price offer, will you" tends to mean "if you talk about these prices, you might find others are paying less". Steve
On Mar 8, 2010, at 5:01 PM, David Knell wrote:
And don't forget the propensity of (wholesale) VoIP providers to require an NDA to be faxed (or, if you're lucky, scanned and e-mailed) before discussing pricing. Without wishing to digress further, I find this utterly absurd, and I've yet to find a satisfactory explanation of why it should be. --Dave
On 9 March 2010 09:39, Gabriel Kuri <gkuri@ieee.org> wrote:
Plus they can legally get away with FAXing personal data directly between machines [...]
It is not that uncommon to accidentally send a confidential fax to the wrong telephone number ... :-( I have a vague recollection of an incident here where it had been discovered the government in power had been sending confidential faxes to a member of the opposition for months until they realized their records hadn't been updated properly since the last election. Oops. -- Brian May <brian@microcomaustralia.com.au>
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Brian West <brian@freeswitch.org> wrote:
Thats unacceptable!!! Wait its faxing... can't we just let it DIE already?? They have this thing called email... you should check it out... works great... even lets you attach video, audio and color images.... oh and text... dreary old text.... but hey you can mark it all up in HTML and fancy fonts now and make it anoying^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpretty.
/b
well Brian, thats a wrong assumption.... fax (T.30) is, and it will be, present all over the world... you cannot do anything against (not even thing about eradicate) it at least for the next 5 years :) so, you will ave to comply ... we will have to comply if our customers keep sending faxes :) T.
On 03/09/2010 05:54 AM, Klaus Hochlehnert wrote:
Hi
you could also use newest trunk of t38modem + trunk of OPAL. The newest trunk version(s) use SpanDSP as fax engine and it works more reliable than the previous t38 engine (I think it was integrated in OPAL). It also supports fallback to t30 audio fax if you're connected to ISDN network.
Together with HylaFAX+ the success rate is ok (unfortunately not perfect).
Klaus
The success rate with the latest opal + spandsp code should be about as about good as your system is capable of giving. That is, most failures will either be: - that the call is just a bad call - wrong number, messed up FAX machine usage, etc. - your systems is dropping packets or otherwise screwing up the timing. - T.38 negotiation is screwing up, because T.38 compatibility is still a mess. The last one is such a problem for the whole industry, the SIP Forum has a working group to address it. Steve
participants (13)
-
Anthony Minessale
-
Brian May
-
Brian West
-
David Knell
-
Gabriel Kuri
-
ivdreg ivdreg
-
Klaus Hochlehnert
-
Kristian Kielhofner
-
Meftah Tayeb
-
Michael Collins
-
Steve Underwood
-
Tihomir Culjaga
-
Tod Hansmann