[Freeswitch-users] Request for change

Michael Jerris mike at jerris.com
Sat Aug 30 17:15:37 PDT 2008 

In addition to a FreeSWITCH book, he is also working on a full length  
litterary response to war and piece, all written from his iPhone.

On Aug 30, 2008, at 7:42 PM, Michael S Collins <msc at freeswitch.org>  
wrote:

> As I am the one primarily responsible for creating the Rosette Stone  
> page I feel compelled to respond.
>
> I agree with Anthony. The wiki does *not* presume that its readers  
> have Asterisk experience. In fact, this is the very reason that the  
> Rosetta Stone page was created.
>
> That being said, there are scattered references to Asterisk. How can  
> there not be? Asterisk is one of several reference points for FS. It  
> is probably the key reference point. Most early adopters of FS have  
> Asterisk experience - or in some cases, battle scars. :)
>
> Brian West and I have been kicking around some ideas for a FS book.  
> One key element in writing a book is knowing your target  
> demographic. From my two plus years in the FS community I can tell  
> you that the demographic has started changing. Initially, the vast  
> majority of FS users were Asterisk users. Today that isn't  
> necessarily the case. We are noticing more people who say to us, "I  
> saw FS and Asterisk on a Google search. I think FS looks right for  
> me." In other words we're seeing first-time OSS telephony users and  
> even first-time any kind of telephony users. These new ones needn't  
> concern themselves with the Asterisk references except to put FS  
> into historical context.
>
> One last thing. You said, "...the beauty of asterisk is its  
> simplicity." I can guarantee you that the Asterisk "refugees" here  
> in the FS community will vehemently disagree with this statement.  
> However, since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, we will let  
> that comment slide. :)
>
> We will take your comments as suggestions where we can improve  
> things on the wiki. If you see any specific references to Asterisk  
> that are   spurious then let us know and we'll evaluate them on a  
> case by case basis. You can also hop on IRC channel #freeswitch-docs  
> and air your concerns in real time.
>
> -MC
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 30, 2008, at 9:59 AM, "Anthony Minessale" <anthony.minessale at gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I think mostly everything you are saying is completely wrong.
>>
>> The majority of documents we have that mention asterisk strive to  
>> make sure it's well understood that FreeSWITCH has an entire  
>> different paradigm.  If you read your own statements you will see  
>> you are not qualified to comment from the perspective of someone  
>> who has never used either software because you said yourself that  
>> you tried asterisk and found it easy to understand where following  
>> FreeSWITCH was much more difficult.  That means you already fell  
>> into the asterisk paradigm and now are struggling to shift to how  
>> FreeSWITCH is designed.  The volunteers who work on the  
>> documentation made a single section in the wiki for people who are  
>> used to asterisk.  They can document whatever they want, they are  
>> volunteers.
>>
>> You make two insulting comments about how I do not listen to the  
>> users.  Please have a chat with the hundreds of users who have  
>> influenced the design of FreeSWITCH and learn for yourself that  
>> this is not true and in fact makes me incredibly angry that you  
>> would have the nerve to even suggest it.
>>
>> You may also need a history lesson.  I myself did a great deal of  
>> work on asterisk for several years.  It's part of my life and if I  
>> want to talk about that experience or host my asterisk code on my  
>> website then I will.  Of course you will not find anything about  
>> FreeSWITCH on the asterisk website.  They are annoyed that we  
>> exist.  You don't want there to be competition in open source then  
>> go talk to them.  They are the only software to even use the word  
>> compete that I have met so far.  We have ClueCon every year where  
>> we work together with every open source project you can think of.   
>> So you may want to go do your homework more............
>>
>> You have insulted me and all of the volunteers who have spend  
>> hundreds on the documentation by taking a quick scan of our site  
>> and jumping to conclusions.  The time it took you to write this  
>> email annoying me, you could have helped document something  
>> instead.  Now I hope you do the right thing and apologize to them.   
>> Don't bother with me, it's them you owe the apology cos they are  
>> doing it all just because they want to and for no other reason.
>>
>> I am sorry it takes you so long to understand FreeSWITCH but that  
>> is not my problem.  This is my software for me to do whatever I  
>> want with and you are someone who is choosing to use it so it's  
>> your dilemma to learn how to work it or to decide if you prefer  
>> another alternative but when you do so.  Do it with more respect  
>> and try to imagine how much work it takes to provide you with  
>> something that just works when you type "make"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 5:38 AM, Sunil Singh  
>> <sunil.d.admin at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> After going through the documents, I feel that the documents assume  
>> that the guy who is going to use freeswitch is well versed with  
>> asterisk or is an asterisk user who is going to switch to  
>> freeswitch from asterisk. Its not from the point that somebody from  
>> scratch can appreciate it for its design or any other thing.
>>
>> I appreciate the point of consideration for a large community, but  
>> for freeswitch to be the best it has to wipe out that they know  
>> asterisk. They should believe more on its users rather than what  
>> asterisk is doing. Once a basic level is reached than it should be  
>> user driven rather than asterisk driven. If we compete with them in  
>> mind than eventually we will mess up.
>>
>> To be honest the beauty of asterisk lies in its simplicity. I was  
>> reading freeswitch for hours and still struggling. Whereas in  
>> asterisk I started and within hours I am up and running.
>>
>> I also realised that in asterisk I didn't find a document talking  
>> about freeswitch but in freeswitch its only about, with asterisk in  
>> mind. Whether they are documents or working.
>>
>> Comparisions will not allow to grow beyond a limit, we will always  
>> be living in a psycho complex, leaving us with pain, agaony and  
>> anger.
>>
>> We should love what we are doing, and we want to make a universal  
>> platform thats it. No point in comparision and running for a race.  
>> Most of the open source are started by technology lovers that's it.  
>> They don't create a technology to compete, they want to create a  
>> new technology and that's why I started using freeswitch that its  
>> going to create a new revolution which asterisk has lost because of  
>> monetary considerations.
>>
>> So I request to please love what we are doing and when ever we are  
>> making a document think that its for a novice.
>>
>>
>> I request those who are driving it, please listen to your users  
>> more. If you have started from scratch than let's some beauty come  
>> out of it, a disruptive way of working. Like Apache, mysql ......   
>> Ease of use is the main thing for a starter or anybody else. Even  
>> it may be a best but if its not simple than people are not going to  
>> use it and too much mention of asterisk in the doc will end up  
>> people trying asterisk more rather than using freeswitch.
>>
>> The guys whom we are targetting today may not be there, there will  
>> be a new generation and we should drive it with them in mind.
>>
>> I hope we all give it a thought and think from a novice point of  
>> view.
>>
>> Be a BOLT win with a self confidence and create only records.
>>
>> regards,
>> Sunil
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Anthony Minessale II
>>
>> FreeSWITCH http://www.freeswitch.org/
>> ClueCon http://www.cluecon.com/
>>
>> AIM: anthm
>> MSN:anthony_minessale at hotmail.com
>> GTALK/JABBER/PAYPAL:anthony.minessale at gmail.com
>> IRC: irc.freenode.net #freeswitch
>>
>> FreeSWITCH Developer Conference
>> sip:888 at conference.freeswitch.org
>> iax:guest at conference.freeswitch.org/888
>> googletalk:conf+888 at conference.freeswitch.org
>> pstn:213-799-1400
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