Hey all, we need bodies in IRC! It's Friday, let's have a good group to answer questions and help all the newbies. -MC
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Michael Collins <msc@freeswitch.org> wrote:
Hey all, we need bodies in IRC! It's Friday, let's have a good group to answer questions and help all the newbies.
-MC
Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at irc.freenode.net.
Michael, sorry, it's movie night with the kids :) David Ponzone Direction Technique email: david.ponzone@ipeva.fr tel: 01 74 03 18 97 gsm: 06 66 98 76 34 Service Client IPeva tel: 0811 46 26 26 www.ipeva.fr - www.ipeva-studio.com Ce message et toutes les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisée est interdite. Tout message électronique est susceptible d'altération. IPeva décline toute responsabilité au titre de ce message s'il a été altéré, déformé ou falsifié. Si vous n'êtes pas destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire immédiatement et d'avertir l'expéditeur. Le 08/10/2010 à 19:44, Michael Collins a écrit :
Hey all, we need bodies in IRC! It's Friday, let's have a good group to answer questions and help all the newbies.
-MC _______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
mercutioviz wrote:
Hey all, we need bodies in IRC! It's Friday, let's have a good group to answer questions and help all the newbies. The following opinions are based on mine and/or others whom I had spoken to w.r.t FS.
1. FS needs to setup/provide a good forum, instead of the unfavorable mailing list. I tried to bring in as many newbies and/or other PBX users as I could (at least 4 newbies) and none of them has shown up. I followed up with them and got several answers. One of them is I had had my share with mailing lists in the past and I don't like to deal with it again. I sure don't mind if FS has a good forum to attend. One managed to lurk around and told me that there are a lot of FS experts here trying to help, but she wouldn't understand at all when reading the replies addressed to some posts. She told me the replies/suggestions were brief and vague with no examples to lead/guide any newbies to make them trying to understand. Honestly, I agree with her. This leads me to the next item below. 2. When helping a newbie, try to explain in more detail (best with an example) and don't be brief. For instance, when I posted http://freeswitch-users.2379917.n2.nabble.com/More-questions-migrating-from-... this asking for some help, I know everyone, including Antonio, had voluntarily tried to help. However, telling a newbie like me to use param is really not going to help at all, let alone may completely discourage a newbie who tries to learn FS. Some people, be it a newbie or an expert, will learn better to understand through examples. For sure, we don't really want to encourage any spoon fed activities here. 3. The Wiki needs to be revised with additional examples. There may be some few good suggestions with examples replied to the posts that helped the posters. Perhaps, one needs to make sure those good suggestions with examples get added to the Wiki for others benefit. The http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Dialplan_XML Dialplan XML and http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/SIP_Provider_Examples SIP Provider Examples are two good examples to follow. This way, a newbie can learn easier, instead of bombarding the list with the same questions from time to time. The following is a bit off topic, but may be related. I did briefly attend the past conference and noticed the speaker requested the audiences to spread out and bring in additional FS users to attend the next conference room. I believe there must be tons of VoIP users out there who still don't know anything about FS and are frequent members of many VoIP forums will be interested in FS as well as its conference calls. Some of them may be pheasants in VoIP world and don't know much how to get into the conference lines facility that they never heard of while others are merely hesitant because they can't find a simple number to dial into the conference room from an ATA device. For instance, I recently (as far back as 3 weeks ago) told someone in a VoIP forum about FS conference calls and even provided the http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/FS_weekly_2010_09_15 link (at the time). He replied back and told me that he doesn't know how to make his VoIP device to support a SIP URI dial into the conference line. Perhaps, this person may not sound like a good candidate at all, but at least this goes to show FS conference call facility has at least a weak point. If FS were to provide other means, i.e. SIPBroker, iNum, e164, etc., for any VoIP users to dial into the conference calls, then I believe this will add more audiences to the FS conference room. ----- don't and stop are the ONLY two 4-letter words considered offensive to men, but not when used together. -- View this message in context: http://freeswitch-users.2379917.n2.nabble.com/Get-on-IRC-day-tp5615890p56163... Sent from the freeswitch-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 1:06 PM, mazilo <Nabble@slickdeals.endjunk.com>wrote:
1. FS needs to setup/provide a good forum, instead of the unfavorable mailing list.
No, it doesn't. We've heard this argument for three years. We've openly stated that while *we*, personally (the core FS team) don't care for having a forum, we are not against the community setting one up and maintaining it. We had one person try two different things with a forum, one of which I think is the Nabble thing. It died a slow, painful death from lack of community support. Our community as a whole just doesn't want one. An argument has been floated that having a forum will allow the community to grow and thrive, and therefore *we* (the core FS team) should sponsor and maintain it. Frankly, we don't buy it. We feel like having an AWESOME piece of software with enthusiastic users is what makes the community grow and thrive. If someone stays away from FreeSWITCH solely because they don't like our combination of mailing list, IRC, and wiki then so be it. We respect their decision. I tried to bring in as many newbies and/or other PBX users as
I could (at least 4 newbies) and none of them has shown up. I followed up with them and got several answers. One of them is I had had my share with mailing lists in the past and I don't like to deal with it again. I sure don't mind if FS has a good forum to attend. One managed to lurk around and told me that there are a lot of FS experts here trying to help, but she wouldn't understand at all when reading the replies addressed to some posts.
She told me the replies/suggestions were brief and vague with no examples to
lead/guide any newbies to make them trying to understand. Honestly, I agree with her. This leads me to the next item below.
2. When helping a newbie, try to explain in more detail (best with an example) and don't be brief. For instance, when I posted
http://freeswitch-users.2379917.n2.nabble.com/More-questions-migrating-from-... this asking for some help, I know everyone, including Antonio, had voluntarily tried to help. However, telling a newbie like me to use param is really not going to help at all, let alone may completely discourage a newbie who tries to learn FS. Some people, be it a newbie or an expert, will learn better to understand through examples. For sure, we don't really want to encourage any spoon fed activities here.
I respect your honesty. I will encourage those answering newbie questions to be more explicit wherever possible. Just understand that everyone on this list and in IRC is an unpaid volunteer, giving of their time freely. In some cases an expert has to make a choice: give a brief answer or give no answer. Given the option, I think even a newbie would appreciate the quick answer as opposed to silence on the wire.
3. The Wiki needs to be revised with additional examples.
Agreed. Volunteers welcome. :) Seriously, I need as much help as possible with the wiki. I definitely have a core of people helping out. (You know who you are, and I thank you profusely.) I would like to have more help. Keeping the wiki updated is a big job. Anthony & company add features faster than we can document them! In many cases, because Tony is such a great programmer, he can add stuff in like an hour and it takes 2-3 hours for me to read the source code, recompile, make changes to my dialplan or other configs, test various scenarios, and then update the wiki with the new API, dp app, chan var, SIP profile param, etc. All the while I have a day job and other FreeSWITCH-related duties.
There may be some few good suggestions with examples replied to the posts that helped the posters. Perhaps, one needs to make sure those good suggestions with examples get added to the Wiki for others benefit. The http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Dialplan_XML Dialplan XML and http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/SIP_Provider_Examples SIP Provider Examples are two good examples to follow. This way, a newbie can learn easier, instead of bombarding the list with the same questions from time to time.
We spent a ton of time on the FreeSWITCH book, which contains a lot of the hand-holding newbies really need. It's relatively inexpensive and you can get just the PDF if you like. (If you're destitute then you can probably borrow the book from someone who has it.)
<snip...> For instance, I recently (as far back as 3 weeks ago) told someone in a VoIP forum about FS conference calls and even provided the http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/FS_weekly_2010_09_15 link (at the time). He replied back and told me that he doesn't know how to make his VoIP device to support a SIP URI dial into the conference line.
I'm not trying to be mean here, but honestly, if he can't dial any of our ways of getting to the conference then he's *not ready for a VoIP conference*!! We have many ways to connect: PSTN: 1-919-386-990 SIP: sip:888@conference.freeswitch.org <sip%3A888@conference.freeswitch.org> GTalk: gtalk:conf+888@conference.freeswitch.org<gtalk%3Aconf%2B888@conference.freeswitch.org> Skype: call skype user "skypiax5" That's five different ways of connecting. I'm sorry, but that's more than enough ways to get people to call a *VoIP* conference about telecom software. If people are incapable of connecting from one of these five ways then they are not yet ready for FreeSWITCH. I will keep working the wiki and making FreeSWITCH as easy as possible for newbies. However, please keep in mind that those who don't have telecom, networking, and/or VoIP experience are going to experience a much steeper learning curve. That's just the nature of the beast. To ease their transition maybe we could come up with a recommended reading list? "VoIP For Dummies" kind of stuff maybe. If you guys have any suggestions I'll put the on the wiki. -MC
I concur what Michael says. We see quite some people on IRC, who (and I am just stating a fact) require a LOT of help, althought they didn't really do their homework, and their main objective is to connect 2 phones at home to a common SIP account. So I would agree that in a such case, detailed explanations are required. But the issue is, most FreeSWITCHers won't have the time for it, and those newbies don't have money to spend for consultancy or a full VoIP course. And for someone already "VOIP-enabled", FreeSWITCH's learning curve is quite fast, if you immerge yourself in it for at least 2 weeks, if you read the wiki and the book, and if you join the channel, not only to ask questions around, but also to read other discussions. I learn so many things just being there. Also, a lot of people think that there is a team somewhere in charge of completing the wiki. Well, no. It's everybody's task to do it, if one feels he has an interesting info to share, or a nice example to give to newbies. Also there are still quite some mistakes to correct (I corrected one the other day in the doublenat scenario example), and variables to document. Even a newbie can document, once he has understood something that is not explained on the wiki. David Ponzone Direction Technique email: david.ponzone@ipeva.fr tel: 01 74 03 18 97 gsm: 06 66 98 76 34 Service Client IPeva tel: 0811 46 26 26 www.ipeva.fr - www.ipeva-studio.com Ce message et toutes les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisée est interdite. Tout message électronique est susceptible d'altération. IPeva décline toute responsabilité au titre de ce message s'il a été altéré, déformé ou falsifié. Si vous n'êtes pas destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire immédiatement et d'avertir l'expéditeur. Le 08/10/2010 à 23:31, Michael Collins a écrit :
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 1:06 PM, mazilo <Nabble@slickdeals.endjunk.com> wrote:
1. FS needs to setup/provide a good forum, instead of the unfavorable mailing list. No, it doesn't. We've heard this argument for three years. We've openly stated that while *we*, personally (the core FS team) don't care for having a forum, we are not against the community setting one up and maintaining it. We had one person try two different things with a forum, one of which I think is the Nabble thing. It died a slow, painful death from lack of community support. Our community as a whole just doesn't want one. An argument has been floated that having a forum will allow the community to grow and thrive, and therefore *we* (the core FS team) should sponsor and maintain it. Frankly, we don't buy it. We feel like having an AWESOME piece of software with enthusiastic users is what makes the community grow and thrive. If someone stays away from FreeSWITCH solely because they don't like our combination of mailing list, IRC, and wiki then so be it. We respect their decision.
I tried to bring in as many newbies and/or other PBX users as I could (at least 4 newbies) and none of them has shown up. I followed up with them and got several answers. One of them is I had had my share with mailing lists in the past and I don't like to deal with it again. I sure don't mind if FS has a good forum to attend. One managed to lurk around and told me that there are a lot of FS experts here trying to help, but she wouldn't understand at all when reading the replies addressed to some posts. She told me the replies/suggestions were brief and vague with no examples to lead/guide any newbies to make them trying to understand. Honestly, I agree with her. This leads me to the next item below.
2. When helping a newbie, try to explain in more detail (best with an example) and don't be brief. For instance, when I posted http://freeswitch-users.2379917.n2.nabble.com/More-questions-migrating-from-... this asking for some help, I know everyone, including Antonio, had voluntarily tried to help. However, telling a newbie like me to use param is really not going to help at all, let alone may completely discourage a newbie who tries to learn FS. Some people, be it a newbie or an expert, will learn better to understand through examples. For sure, we don't really want to encourage any spoon fed activities here. I respect your honesty. I will encourage those answering newbie questions to be more explicit wherever possible. Just understand that everyone on this list and in IRC is an unpaid volunteer, giving of their time freely. In some cases an expert has to make a choice: give a brief answer or give no answer. Given the option, I think even a newbie would appreciate the quick answer as opposed to silence on the wire.
3. The Wiki needs to be revised with additional examples. Agreed. Volunteers welcome. :) Seriously, I need as much help as possible with the wiki. I definitely have a core of people helping out. (You know who you are, and I thank you profusely.) I would like to have more help. Keeping the wiki updated is a big job. Anthony & company add features faster than we can document them! In many cases, because Tony is such a great programmer, he can add stuff in like an hour and it takes 2-3 hours for me to read the source code, recompile, make changes to my dialplan or other configs, test various scenarios, and then update the wiki with the new API, dp app, chan var, SIP profile param, etc. All the while I have a day job and other FreeSWITCH-related duties.
There may be some few good suggestions with examples replied to the posts that helped the posters. Perhaps, one needs to make sure those good suggestions with examples get added to the Wiki for others benefit. The http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Dialplan_XML Dialplan XML and http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/SIP_Provider_Examples SIP Provider Examples are two good examples to follow. This way, a newbie can learn easier, instead of bombarding the list with the same questions from time to time. We spent a ton of time on the FreeSWITCH book, which contains a lot of the hand-holding newbies really need. It's relatively inexpensive and you can get just the PDF if you like. (If you're destitute then you can probably borrow the book from someone who has it.)
<snip...> For instance, I recently (as far back as 3 weeks ago) told someone in a VoIP forum about FS conference calls and even provided the http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/FS_weekly_2010_09_15 link (at the time). He replied back and told me that he doesn't know how to make his VoIP device to support a SIP URI dial into the conference line. I'm not trying to be mean here, but honestly, if he can't dial any of our ways of getting to the conference then he's *not ready for a VoIP conference*!! We have many ways to connect: PSTN: 1-919-386-990 SIP: sip:888@conference.freeswitch.org GTalk: gtalk:conf+888@conference.freeswitch.org Skype: call skype user "skypiax5"
That's five different ways of connecting. I'm sorry, but that's more than enough ways to get people to call a *VoIP* conference about telecom software. If people are incapable of connecting from one of these five ways then they are not yet ready for FreeSWITCH.
I will keep working the wiki and making FreeSWITCH as easy as possible for newbies. However, please keep in mind that those who don't have telecom, networking, and/or VoIP experience are going to experience a much steeper learning curve. That's just the nature of the beast. To ease their transition maybe we could come up with a recommended reading list? "VoIP For Dummies" kind of stuff maybe. If you guys have any suggestions I'll put the on the wiki.
-MC
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I hope you don't mind comments and a thank you from a newbie. My background is VOIP on Linksys SPA9000(I hate)/SPA962 phones in small office for 3 years. I tried Asterisk and gave up, then FreeSwitch earlier this year. I saw the book was coming so waited for that (I read it 3 times). I am a mainframe computer programmer so not too dumb but VOIP is all new to me. From a real newbies perspective: 1. The book was invaluable to get started. The wiki was invaluable to keep going. 2. I started simple, trying to duplicate what I had: Two separate systems one with answering and one with IVR that calls a cell phone. 3. I got it to work with the book and wiki and valuable help from the mailing list that gave me info not in the book or Wiki (that I could find, such as bridge had to use :_:). In other words, I needed all three resources to duplicate what I had. 4. I decided to add more functions since Freeswitch was so powerful, and I was having fun with it. I have some pretty slick things (to me anyway) implemented. I sure learned a lot I will share on the wiki. 5. But I have two problems, one a show stopper (prevents calls) since September 21. Some people need to be hand-held all the time but I am not one of them. Posting in the list is my last resort, usually after several hours/days of searching. I have spent weeks on the two problems (20 hours in the last 3 days). I posted on the list and got on IRC for the first time today. My impression was that IRC was for the pros, although to my surprise I was able to answer a newbies question! I thought I would have figured it out by now but no. This scenario of a newbie getting this far and having a show-stopper would be nice to address. Could be a separate IRC for newbies? As for paying/donations, I built FS on my OpenSuse system and plan to put my goodies on the wiki. I also built this on osX where the final FS will run (Mac mini). It was tough and someone else on the list had problems on 10.6.4 and I provided everything I learned. I will also add this to the wiki. Finally, my business has gone down a lot and don't have much to spend but I was going to get the Hogans Heroes DVD collection on the wish list or something like that (BTW, it's on HD on UHD). You guys deserve a lot more but I am limited these days. Anyway, thanks for a great product and I wish you luck and $$$ from it. I will buy every book you publish and recommend FreeSwitch to anyone who can use it. Mario On 10/08/10 15:06, David Ponzone wrote:
I concur what Michael says. We see quite some people on IRC, who (and I am just stating a fact) require a LOT of help, althought they didn't really do their homework, and their main objective is to connect 2 phones at home to a common SIP account. So I would agree that in a such case, detailed explanations are required. But the issue is, most FreeSWITCHers won't have the time for it, and those newbies don't have money to spend for consultancy or a full VoIP course.
And for someone already "VOIP-enabled", FreeSWITCH's learning curve is quite fast, if you immerge yourself in it for at least 2 weeks, if you read the wiki and the book, and if you join the channel, not only to ask questions around, but also to read other discussions. I learn so many things just being there.
Also, a lot of people think that there is a team somewhere in charge of completing the wiki. Well, no. It's everybody's task to do it, if one feels he has an interesting info to share, or a nice example to give to newbies. Also there are still quite some mistakes to correct (I corrected one the other day in the doublenat scenario example), and variables to document. Even a newbie can document, once he has understood something that is not explained on the wiki.
David Ponzone Direction Technique email: david.ponzone@ipeva.fr <mailto:david.ponzone@ipeva.fr> tel: 01 74 03 18 97 gsm: 06 66 98 76 34
Service Client IPeva tel: 0811 46 26 26 www.ipeva.fr <BLOCKED::http://www.ipeva.fr/> - www.ipeva-studio.com <BLOCKED::http://www.ipeva-studio.com/>
/Ce message et toutes les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisée est interdite. Tout message électronique est susceptible d'altération. /*/IPeva/*/ décline toute responsabilité au titre de ce message s'il a été altéré, déformé ou falsifié. Si vous n'êtes pas destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire immédiatement et d'avertir l'expéditeur./ / /
Le 08/10/2010 à 23:31, Michael Collins a écrit :
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 1:06 PM, mazilo <Nabble@slickdeals.endjunk.com <mailto:Nabble@slickdeals.endjunk.com>> wrote:
1. FS needs to setup/provide a good forum, instead of the unfavorable mailing list.
No, it doesn't. We've heard this argument for three years. We've openly stated that while *we*, personally (the core FS team) don't care for having a forum, we are not against the community setting one up and maintaining it. We had one person try two different things with a forum, one of which I think is the Nabble thing. It died a slow, painful death from lack of community support. Our community as a whole just doesn't want one. An argument has been floated that having a forum will allow the community to grow and thrive, and therefore *we* (the core FS team) should sponsor and maintain it. Frankly, we don't buy it. We feel like having an AWESOME piece of software with enthusiastic users is what makes the community grow and thrive. If someone stays away from FreeSWITCH solely because they don't like our combination of mailing list, IRC, and wiki then so be it. We respect their decision.
I tried to bring in as many newbies and/or other PBX users as I could (at least 4 newbies) and none of them has shown up. I followed up with them and got several answers. One of them is I had had my share with mailing lists in the past and I don't like to deal with it again. I sure don't mind if FS has a good forum to attend. One managed to lurk around and told me that there are a lot of FS experts here trying to help, but she wouldn't understand at all when reading the replies addressed to some posts.
She told me the replies/suggestions were brief and vague with no examples to lead/guide any newbies to make them trying to understand. Honestly, I agree with her. This leads me to the next item below.
2. When helping a newbie, try to explain in more detail (best with an example) and don't be brief. For instance, when I posted http://freeswitch-users.2379917.n2.nabble.com/More-questions-migrating-from-... this asking for some help, I know everyone, including Antonio, had voluntarily tried to help. However, telling a newbie like me to use param is really not going to help at all, let alone may completely discourage a newbie who tries to learn FS. Some people, be it a newbie or an expert, will learn better to understand through examples. For sure, we don't really want to encourage any spoon fed activities here.
I respect your honesty. I will encourage those answering newbie questions to be more explicit wherever possible. Just understand that everyone on this list and in IRC is an unpaid volunteer, giving of their time freely. In some cases an expert has to make a choice: give a brief answer or give no answer. Given the option, I think even a newbie would appreciate the quick answer as opposed to silence on the wire.
3. The Wiki needs to be revised with additional examples.
Agreed. Volunteers welcome. :) Seriously, I need as much help as possible with the wiki. I definitely have a core of people helping out. (You know who you are, and I thank you profusely.) I would like to have more help. Keeping the wiki updated is a big job. Anthony & company add features faster than we can document them! In many cases, because Tony is such a great programmer, he can add stuff in like an hour and it takes 2-3 hours for me to read the source code, recompile, make changes to my dialplan or other configs, test various scenarios, and then update the wiki with the new API, dp app, chan var, SIP profile param, etc. All the while I have a day job and other FreeSWITCH-related duties.
There may be some few good suggestions with examples replied to the posts that helped the posters. Perhaps, one needs to make sure those good suggestions with examples get added to the Wiki for others benefit. The http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Dialplan_XML Dialplan XML and http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/SIP_Provider_Examples SIP Provider Examples are two good examples to follow. This way, a newbie can learn easier, instead of bombarding the list with the same questions from time to time.
We spent a ton of time on the FreeSWITCH book, which contains a lot of the hand-holding newbies really need. It's relatively inexpensive and you can get just the PDF if you like. (If you're destitute then you can probably borrow the book from someone who has it.)
<snip...> For instance, I recently (as far back as 3 weeks ago) told someone in a VoIP forum about FS conference calls and even provided the http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/FS_weekly_2010_09_15 link (at the time). He replied back and told me that he doesn't know how to make his VoIP device to support a SIP URI dial into the conference line.
I'm not trying to be mean here, but honestly, if he can't dial any of our ways of getting to the conference then he's *not ready for a VoIP conference*!! We have many ways to connect: PSTN: 1-919-386-990 SIP: sip:888@conference.freeswitch.org <mailto:sip%3A888@conference.freeswitch.org> GTalk: gtalk:conf+888@conference.freeswitch.org <mailto:gtalk%3Aconf%2B888@conference.freeswitch.org> Skype: call skype user "skypiax5"
That's five different ways of connecting. I'm sorry, but that's more than enough ways to get people to call a *VoIP* conference about telecom software. If people are incapable of connecting from one of these five ways then they are not yet ready for FreeSWITCH.
I will keep working the wiki and making FreeSWITCH as easy as possible for newbies. However, please keep in mind that those who don't have telecom, networking, and/or VoIP experience are going to experience a much steeper learning curve. That's just the nature of the beast. To ease their transition maybe we could come up with a recommended reading list? "VoIP For Dummies" kind of stuff maybe. If you guys have any suggestions I'll put the on the wiki.
-MC
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mercutioviz wrote:
If someone stays away from FreeSWITCH solely because they don't like our combination of mailing list, IRC, and wiki then so be it. We respect their decision.
<snip>
That's five different ways of connecting. I'm sorry, but that's more than enough ways to get people to call a *VoIP* conference about telecom software. If people are incapable of connecting from one of these five ways then they are not yet ready for FreeSWITCH. Whether these FS wannabees are ready or not isn't for me to judge. But, a PR with attitudes like above will likely to make wannabees and/or newcomers uneasy and if not unwelcome, AFAIC. It sounded like as if FS doesn't need you, but if you can make it to reach FS then you are welcome (because you have passed the 1st hindrance), especially to attend FS conference room.
I respect your honesty. I will encourage those answering newbie questions to
be more explicit wherever possible. Just understand that everyone on this list and in IRC is an unpaid volunteer, giving of their time freely. In some cases an expert has to make a choice: give a brief answer or give no answer. Given the option, I think even a newbie would appreciate the quick answer as opposed to silence on the wire. I reckon we all do understand that our present here to help each other is on a voluntarily basis. As w.r.t either give a brief answer or give no answer, my opinion is silence is golden. As a newbie here, I may not be of any help. But, there were several occasions that I had to retreat from trying to help even though I had the answers. The reason was I simply didn't have enough time to spare and I certainly wouldn't like to give brief answers that may and/or may not lead to nowhere to resolve the issues. One thing we all need to remember is the help one provides here isn't only for the current readers, but also will be for future readers who need it, too. So, a more elaborate answer will certainly make Perhaps, I shall not do that in the future and just rush to lend my hands as my allotted time will allow.
We spent a ton of time on the FreeSWITCH book, which contains a lot of the
hand-holding newbies really need. It's relatively inexpensive and you can get just the PDF if you like. (If you're destitute then you can probably borrow the book from someone who has it.) I agree with you on this. The FS book is of invaluable to any FS users. Those who are in the US and EU shouldn't have a problem to order the book and/or e-book. But, those who live in some 3rd world countries may have problems, i.e. their credit cards won't work (even to pay paypal), shipment doesn't arrive, etc. In the long run, it will be a lot more headaches for those who live in some 3rd world countries trying to order things from other countries.
However, please keep in mind that those who don't have telecom,
networking, and/or VoIP experience are going to experience a much steeper learning curve. That's just the nature of the beast. I completely agree with you on this. Let's also not forget that, unlike asterisk, FS is a huge software that can do more and can also be complicated to newbies with a much steeper learning curve.
----- don't and stop are the ONLY two 4-letter words considered offensive to men, but not when used together. -- View this message in context: http://freeswitch-users.2379917.n2.nabble.com/Get-on-IRC-day-tp5615890p56172... Sent from the freeswitch-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
The Nabble thing is working fine for me, in fact it is why I am still able to get answers. I won't deal with the flood of emails from a pure mailing list. Nabble is to me a decent bridge between those wanting a Forum and the reality of there not being one. IRC, well it depends who happens to be on when you need help. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't :-) Don't give, try again. As a long time computer user/coder/designer/hw fixer (wrote my first program for an NCR315 in 1965 while in high school!) I am disturbed over the last 41 years to see the sheer laziness of people. With the www that has become much worse. Everyone wants an instant solution to a complex problem, preferably with no effort on their part. My reco is to provide an answer with an example or a link when possible. And if you want to search for similar FS issues to your own, get on Nabble. I bought the eBook. Love it. Thank you. (FS on Dockstar with OpenWRT, awesome!!!!) -- View this message in context: http://freeswitch-users.2379917.n2.nabble.com/Get-on-IRC-day-tp5615890p56181... Sent from the freeswitch-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
What's the problem with mailing lists? I think they are great! Regards HASSAN On 2010-10-09, humbr <gerrit308@gmail.com> wrote:
The Nabble thing is working fine for me, in fact it is why I am still able to get answers. I won't deal with the flood of emails from a pure mailing list. Nabble is to me a decent bridge between those wanting a Forum and the reality of there not being one. IRC, well it depends who happens to be on when you need help. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't :-) Don't give, try again.
As a long time computer user/coder/designer/hw fixer (wrote my first program for an NCR315 in 1965 while in high school!) I am disturbed over the last 41 years to see the sheer laziness of people. With the www that has become much worse. Everyone wants an instant solution to a complex problem, preferably with no effort on their part.
My reco is to provide an answer with an example or a link when possible. And if you want to search for similar FS issues to your own, get on Nabble.
I bought the eBook. Love it. Thank you.
(FS on Dockstar with OpenWRT, awesome!!!!) -- View this message in context: http://freeswitch-users.2379917.n2.nabble.com/Get-on-IRC-day-tp5615890p56181... Sent from the freeswitch-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
-- Sent from my mobile device
The irony is with every new graduating class of FS users we repeat this discussion about how much the mailing list sucks VIA the mailing list!! =p We are always open to suggestions but as always only suggestions that come with action since we are already overloaded with what we are currently doing on a daily basis. Keep up the discussion but keep it positive...... On Oct 9, 2010 9:27 AM, "humbr" <gerrit308@gmail.com> wrote:
The Nabble thing is working fine for me, in fact it is why I am still able
to
get answers. I won't deal with the flood of emails from a pure mailing list. Nabble is to me a decent bridge between those wanting a Forum and the reality of there not being one. IRC, well it depends who happens to be on when you need help. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't :-) Don't give, try again.
As a long time computer user/coder/designer/hw fixer (wrote my first program for an NCR315 in 1965 while in high school!) I am disturbed over the last 41 years to see the sheer laziness of people. With the www that has become much worse. Everyone wants an instant solution to a complex problem, preferably with no effort on their part.
My reco is to provide an answer with an example or a link when possible. And if you want to search for similar FS issues to your own, get on Nabble.
I bought the eBook. Love it. Thank you.
(FS on Dockstar with OpenWRT, awesome!!!!) -- View this message in context: http://freeswitch-users.2379917.n2.nabble.com/Get-on-IRC-day-tp5615890p56181... Sent from the freeswitch-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
Just like Michael said, if someone wants to set-up a forum and maintain, go for it. An attempt has been made and it failed miserably, yet people continue to ask for forums. On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 7:54 AM, Anthony Minessale < anthony.minessale@gmail.com> wrote:
The irony is with every new graduating class of FS users we repeat this discussion about how much the mailing list sucks VIA the mailing list!! =p
We are always open to suggestions but as always only suggestions that come with action since we are already overloaded with what we are currently doing on a daily basis.
Keep up the discussion but keep it positive...... On Oct 9, 2010 9:27 AM, "humbr" <gerrit308@gmail.com> wrote:
The Nabble thing is working fine for me, in fact it is why I am still
able to
get answers. I won't deal with the flood of emails from a pure mailing list. Nabble is to me a decent bridge between those wanting a Forum and the reality of there not being one. IRC, well it depends who happens to be on when you need help. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't :-) Don't give, try again.
As a long time computer user/coder/designer/hw fixer (wrote my first program for an NCR315 in 1965 while in high school!) I am disturbed over the last 41 years to see the sheer laziness of people. With the www that has become much worse. Everyone wants an instant solution to a complex problem, preferably with no effort on their part.
My reco is to provide an answer with an example or a link when possible. And if you want to search for similar FS issues to your own, get on Nabble.
I bought the eBook. Love it. Thank you.
(FS on Dockstar with OpenWRT, awesome!!!!) -- View this message in context: http://freeswitch-users.2379917.n2.nabble.com/Get-on-IRC-day-tp5615890p56181... Sent from the freeswitch-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________ FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
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participants (9)
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Anthony Minessale
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David Ponzone
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Gonzalo Servat
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humbr
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Mario
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mazilo
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Michael Collins
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Nyamul Hassan
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Tihomir Culjaga