On Tue, 18 Feb 2014, Lawrence Conroy wrote:

Problem (at least over this side of the pond) is customers using the cheapo routers provided by their ISP. These are often pre-configured in strange and stupid ways, or have ISPs who use TR-069 remote "configuration, for your comfort and enjoyment" that achieves the same purpose. However, at least there's a chance these can be fixed. Educating the customers is hard, but if you care, typically you CAN configure your own box to not zap PMTUD. It should be little surprise that the same firmware/UI that has such broken SIP ALG "support" also doesn't make it easy to block selected ICMP types. It sure isn't a surprise to me that these "free" routers also don't handle fragments and so get confused with some DNS traffic. Tried DNSSEC, anyone?

Each market has its own idiosyncrasies. Being on the same side of the pond but with subtle little addition: All ADSL lines are terminated at the CPE. This means that you are not allowed to supply you own DSL modem but have to suffer whatever (still chepo) router du jour the ISP in their infinate wisdom have choosen. If you are lucky you can get them to (for a fee) enable bridge mode where they in most(!) cases stop touching the traffic. To add additional pain to the suffering most of them are using "customized" firmwares which are often not kept timely up-to-date or they simply stopped caring. That is just the usual residential and small office pains... And then we have the "enterprise" (and wannabes). They have the proper equipment but the IT departments are often - shall we say - lacking. Lawrences observations are spot on. So to get back to Brians original question: Where do you see the issues? I see them widely in both places and it comes down to the same basic issue: Nobody really cares! Getting things to really work *properly* is only a concern of a very very select few people. And most of the problems comes down to $$$ Residentials: The ISP only needs to push a simple product which is good enough for surfing. The quality of the firmswares being used on their CPE clearly demonstrates this. If you are into conspiracies you may not that many big ISPs are also telco's - but I honestly think it is more a question of $$$. Why supply a good CPE if most people accept the cheaper alternative. Sometimes you are able to configure them properly - other times that "feature" has been removed for simplicity Commercial: Most firewall admins I have been in touch with have often not had a full understanding of their field. And those who had where often impaired with a "security" deparment/commitee/person/etc. Large organisations have the muscle to hire real networking people - but unfortunately they hire "security" personel at the same time. The mainstream only learns from large mainstream problems. They have heard of "ping of death" which translates into ICMP=BAD! Whenever you come and try to educate people on the subject the typical reaction is not to readily embrace the more informed approach. Their stance is then that everything else is working and that you have a problem with your technology - because we know ICMP=BAD! And along the same lines: Try arguing that NAT is bad and that IP was invented as a point to point protocol. Mainstream interpretation: NAT=firewall - "You said that we do not need firewalls!". Sorry - this was not meant as flamebait. Luckily I do rarely deal with residential installs in my professional life. But on the commercial side we very very often end up spending more money on equipment rather than doing things "correctly". In the enterprise it is often easier to setup a seperate firewall/router for interconnect rather than getting the already existing infrastructure to play ball. And even to do that it ends up being easier to use seperate lines to avoid a lot of read tape! Truly a sad state of affairs... I took the bait and ended up ranting. My apologies! Kind Regards, Claus Andersen