FS Webinterfaces - Opinions on wikiPBX, blue.box, fusionPBX
Hi! I'm currently working on a PBX solution for customers of my company(Small to medium businesses) and since i have to make sure my colleagues and customers don't have to dig into the depths of Freeswitch i need a graphical interface for the most mundane tasks. I've spent the last week evaluating FusionPBX and while i was excited at first, i stumbled over a few bugs(Which i could partially solve myself) and had to dig a bit in the code, so i'm not that thrilled anymore. Before i stay with FusionPBX and try to learn some more php and work my way through the code(Is there no ORM in php or did Mark just leave it out?) and add what i'm missing, i'd like to spend another few days trying other projects. Since it takes a while to get to understand a new webinterface and its quirks, i wanted to ask here first if the other options are even worth the time. I think the alternatives are blue.box and WikiPBX? What i'm specifically looking for are: - Proper AAA/groups I want to be able to have a "root"-admin(SuperAdmin in FusionPBX) that has access to the full GUI, a local admin(Admin in FusionPBX) that can change call-relevant features like conferences, dialplans, follow me, voicemail, CDRs and such and finally users, who can only change settings for their own extension and have access to their voicemail and CDRs. Ideally the root-admin should be able to modify what options/features the "lower" groups are able to manipulate(Switch on/off GUI-elements). FusionPBX offers that partially - but the "local admin" has too much rights and i can't change its rights dynamically. - A layer between GUI and configfiles(e.g. a database) I'll have to do some bulk-provisioning with a script from csv-files and if i can write user-information to a DB instead of creating xml-files it would make my life easier - Feature configuration Dialplans are complex and individual and i can comprehend that i won't find an interface that supports all the features i need. FusionPBX was satisfying in this regard, i didn't miss too much and while i couldn't trust a customer to setup his PBX with a complex configuration with Time Conditions, Hunt Groups, Follow-Me etc. i think at least our 2nd level support would be happy to use the gui instead of tinkering with the flatfiles. And i hope my time allows me to implement some of the needed features to FusionPBX(If i don't find a better alternative). Some of them are: Voicemail(Setup and file-access), Huntgroups/FollowMe, Recording, Click2Call, Conferences, CDRs, AutoAttendant/IVR, MOH, TimeConditions, Directory, BossSec/ChefSek and other dubious features asked for by upper mgmt - Phone provisioning It would be nice to be able to add a MAC-adress to a newly created extension and the rest is taken care of by the GUI-scripts. FusionPBX has this feature, but i didn't have time to try it yet(And i'll have to adapt the templates to fit the phones i'm going to use, hope it really works). Nice to have, if not it shouldn't be too much work to write a custom script that can take care of that, given provisioning data from the GUI. - Written in a language i don't have to learn(Python) WikiPBX is based on Django - yes! "http://www.wikipbx.org/ -> Current Status -> CDR issues improved -> 11 Feb 2010" - Crap! Is this project as dead as it seems or is it just so mature there's no further development needed? The screenshots look a bit minimalistic. That's all i need in a perfect world. I guess none of the projects mentioned above can do that for me - but i'd still love to hear your opinions and experiences if it's even worth the time to install/try any of them or stick with FusionPBX! Cheers, Christian
Hey. Not sure what you really want - FusionPBX's next project is a permission rewrite - multi-tenant was just added. Depending on what you want to change though, you might be able to just change a line or two in the actual php files. I don't recall hearing any questions on #fusionpbx in freenode. I haven't heard of any any outstanding bugs... And yeah, wikipbx seems to be dead. As opposed to FusionPBX who was on the conference yesterday about the roadmap and he gets sponsorships to add new stuff. There's blue.box also as you mentioned. Haven't touched it in a while. -Avi On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Christian Benke <benkokakao@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi!
I'm currently working on a PBX solution for customers of my company(Small to medium businesses) and since i have to make sure my colleagues and customers don't have to dig into the depths of Freeswitch i need a graphical interface for the most mundane tasks.
I've spent the last week evaluating FusionPBX and while i was excited at first, i stumbled over a few bugs(Which i could partially solve myself) and had to dig a bit in the code, so i'm not that thrilled anymore. Before i stay with FusionPBX and try to learn some more php and work my way through the code(Is there no ORM in php or did Mark just leave it out?) and add what i'm missing, i'd like to spend another few days trying other projects.
Since it takes a while to get to understand a new webinterface and its quirks, i wanted to ask here first if the other options are even worth the time. I think the alternatives are blue.box and WikiPBX?
What i'm specifically looking for are:
- Proper AAA/groups I want to be able to have a "root"-admin(SuperAdmin in FusionPBX) that has access to the full GUI, a local admin(Admin in FusionPBX) that can change call-relevant features like conferences, dialplans, follow me, voicemail, CDRs and such and finally users, who can only change settings for their own extension and have access to their voicemail and CDRs. Ideally the root-admin should be able to modify what options/features the "lower" groups are able to manipulate(Switch on/off GUI-elements). FusionPBX offers that partially - but the "local admin" has too much rights and i can't change its rights dynamically.
- A layer between GUI and configfiles(e.g. a database) I'll have to do some bulk-provisioning with a script from csv-files and if i can write user-information to a DB instead of creating xml-files it would make my life easier
- Feature configuration Dialplans are complex and individual and i can comprehend that i won't find an interface that supports all the features i need. FusionPBX was satisfying in this regard, i didn't miss too much and while i couldn't trust a customer to setup his PBX with a complex configuration with Time Conditions, Hunt Groups, Follow-Me etc. i think at least our 2nd level support would be happy to use the gui instead of tinkering with the flatfiles. And i hope my time allows me to implement some of the needed features to FusionPBX(If i don't find a better alternative). Some of them are: Voicemail(Setup and file-access), Huntgroups/FollowMe, Recording, Click2Call, Conferences, CDRs, AutoAttendant/IVR, MOH, TimeConditions, Directory, BossSec/ChefSek and other dubious features asked for by upper mgmt
- Phone provisioning It would be nice to be able to add a MAC-adress to a newly created extension and the rest is taken care of by the GUI-scripts. FusionPBX has this feature, but i didn't have time to try it yet(And i'll have to adapt the templates to fit the phones i'm going to use, hope it really works). Nice to have, if not it shouldn't be too much work to write a custom script that can take care of that, given provisioning data from the GUI.
- Written in a language i don't have to learn(Python) WikiPBX is based on Django - yes! "http://www.wikipbx.org/ -> Current Status -> CDR issues improved -> 11 Feb 2010" - Crap! Is this project as dead as it seems or is it just so mature there's no further development needed? The screenshots look a bit minimalistic.
That's all i need in a perfect world. I guess none of the projects mentioned above can do that for me - but i'd still love to hear your opinions and experiences if it's even worth the time to install/try any of them or stick with FusionPBX!
Cheers, Christian
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On 3 March 2011 16:31, Avi Marcus <avi@avimarcus.net> wrote:
Hey. Not sure what you really want - FusionPBX's next project is a permission rewrite - multi-tenant was just added.
The main feature i'm missing is exactly that, giving granulated permissions to groups - beeing able to dynamically modify the access and permissions of users - which is currently hard-coded for admin/superadmin as far as i've grasped. If my managers agree on having the same set of permissions for our customers though, i could remove some of the admin-permission in the code and live without a dynamic solution for a while(Until we need to release a 2nd version of our product next year). Another important thing i miss is a proper debug mode - FusionPBX does not report errors and acts as if everything went fine, while postgres actually fills logs with syntax-errors and such. I've been spoiled by the error-handling of python-frameworks i'm afraid.
Depending on what you want to change though, you might be able to just change a line or two in the actual php files.
I should have followed through reading that PHP-book i bought 8 years ago, i've not much indulged in the pleasures of working with PHP :-) As i wrote i can fix small issues which i can debug without effort, but to dig deeper into the code and really understand the project will take more time than i can afford right now(Which i'll have to do if i want to add features like Blacklisting or Boss/Sec as "easy to configure" GUI-elements).
I don't recall hearing any questions on #fusionpbx in freenode. I haven't heard of any any outstanding bugs...
Didn't really seek support as i've a tight schedule and if i can't get something to work within a few hours i move on to the next. Small bugs like http://code.google.com/p/fusionpbx/issues/detail?id=57 and the lack of proper error-reporting pester me - i've checked out the latest revision from trunk though, should i've taken the regular packed release?
And yeah, wikipbx seems to be dead. As opposed to FusionPBX who was on the conference yesterday about the roadmap and he gets sponsorships to add new stuff.
Sounds great :-) Cheers, Christian
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Christian Benke <benkokakao@gmail.com>wrote:
On 3 March 2011 16:31, Avi Marcus <avi@avimarcus.net> wrote:
Hey. Not sure what you really want - FusionPBX's next project is a permission rewrite - multi-tenant was just added.
The main feature i'm missing is exactly that, giving granulated permissions to groups - beeing able to dynamically modify the access and permissions of users - which is currently hard-coded for admin/superadmin as far as i've grasped. If my managers agree on having the same set of permissions for our customers though, i could remove some of the admin-permission in the code and live without a dynamic solution for a while(Until we need to release a 2nd version of our product next year).
If this is for business, perhaps you can sponsor it.
Another important thing i miss is a proper debug mode - FusionPBX does not report errors and acts as if everything went fine, while postgres actually fills logs with syntax-errors and such. I've been spoiled by the error-handling of python-frameworks i'm afraid.
Yeah, I have noticed that. I usually make stuff show errors. An error handler should be able to be written into the sql classes if someone puts in the time.
Depending on what you want to change though, you might be able to just change a line or two in the actual php files.
I should have followed through reading that PHP-book i bought 8 years ago, i've not much indulged in the pleasures of working with PHP :-) As i wrote i can fix small issues which i can debug without effort, but to dig deeper into the code and really understand the project will take more time than i can afford right now(Which i'll have to do if i want to add features like Blacklisting or Boss/Sec as "easy to configure" GUI-elements).
I don't recall hearing any questions on #fusionpbx in freenode. I haven't heard of any any outstanding bugs...
Didn't really seek support as i've a tight schedule and if i can't get something to work within a few hours i move on to the next. Small bugs like http://code.google.com/p/fusionpbx/issues/detail?id=57 and the lack of proper error-reporting pester me - i've checked out the latest revision from trunk though, should i've taken the regular packed release?
Not really a point to using a release, we work on the latest SVN. Just some big changes tend to make for a slight upgrade hiccup that wouldn't happen on a fresh install (e.g. the last multi-tenant on gateways). -Avi
On 3 March 2011 18:32, Avi Marcus <avi@avimarcus.net> wrote:
If this is for business, perhaps you can sponsor it.
Yeah, i'll definitely push for sponsoring the involved OSS-projects when we're finished and the project is a commercial success. This is the first time this company uses an open source solution and i've been hired specifically for this task(One month ago), so i'm going to give them a slow introduction to how the OSS-world works ;-) If we absolutely need a feature in the GUI _now_ which i can't implement, i guess i will convince them to send out a bounty. I've also not yet told them yet that we're not going to use Asterisk(Which they refer to when they talk about "my" project) :-P Cheers, Christian
Going back to PHP?? Not sure that's a very wise move. WikiPBX is great, it just needs more people. If you have a bounty to spend on additional features, it'd be better spent on wikipbx. On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Christian Benke <benkokakao@gmail.com>wrote:
On 3 March 2011 18:32, Avi Marcus <avi@avimarcus.net> wrote:
If this is for business, perhaps you can sponsor it.
Yeah, i'll definitely push for sponsoring the involved OSS-projects when we're finished and the project is a commercial success. This is the first time this company uses an open source solution and i've been hired specifically for this task(One month ago), so i'm going to give them a slow introduction to how the OSS-world works ;-) If we absolutely need a feature in the GUI _now_ which i can't implement, i guess i will convince them to send out a bounty.
I've also not yet told them yet that we're not going to use Asterisk(Which they refer to when they talk about "my" project) :-P
Cheers, Christian
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On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Aza Tek <azatek0@gmail.com> wrote:
Going back to PHP?? Not sure that's a very wise move. WikiPBX is great, it just needs more people. If you have a bounty to spend on additional features, it'd be better spent on wikipbx.
Unlikely. WikiPBX has been in existence for 4+ years and has stagnated over and over again. This is one reason why people have created their own GUIs. The new projects have momentum and are under active development. They have long since surpassed WikiPBX in functionality, support, and documentation even though they are much younger. WikiPBX was the first real effort at a true FS front-end GUI and it failed to deliver. The site at wikipbx.org has cobwebs. The most recent forum post is 112 days old. The last announcement is over a year old. As far as PHP vs. Python most of us just *shrug*. If you want to see someone doing stuff with Python then go check out Gabe Gundy's stuff. ( http://gundy.org/) Of course, the *best* GUI for FreeSWITCH is this one: http://www.cudatel.com;) -MC
On 3 March 2011 19:45, Michael Collins <msc@freeswitch.org> wrote:
As far as PHP vs. Python most of us just *shrug*. If you want to see someone doing stuff with Python then go check out Gabe Gundy's stuff. (http://gundy.org/)
Looks promising - looking forward to more tech- and in-depth-posts by Gabriel! Any other FS-related blogs i should take a look at? I'm still new to FreeSWITCH having only used it as the company-PBX for my previous employer(Which was a breeze to implement and automatize), but have a 3 year history with pre-fork OpenSER and Asterisk(And i'm not so fond of the latter so i hope i can fulfill all requirements with FS).
Of course, the *best* GUI for FreeSWITCH is this one: http://www.cudatel.com
Hehe, yeah, had already checked out your project before. The screenshots look promising - so where can i find the sources? :-P Regards, Christian
Does wikipbx have ANY people? I don't think I've ever heard it mentioned on IRC and as stated before, the last status change is from 11 Feb 2010, 19:54 GMT+0200 - over a year ago. On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Aza Tek <azatek0@gmail.com> wrote:
Going back to PHP?? Not sure that's a very wise move. WikiPBX is great, it just needs more people. If you have a bounty to spend on additional features, it'd be better spent on wikipbx.
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Christian Benke <benkokakao@gmail.com>wrote:
On 3 March 2011 18:32, Avi Marcus <avi@avimarcus.net> wrote:
If this is for business, perhaps you can sponsor it.
Yeah, i'll definitely push for sponsoring the involved OSS-projects when we're finished and the project is a commercial success. This is the first time this company uses an open source solution and i've been hired specifically for this task(One month ago), so i'm going to give them a slow introduction to how the OSS-world works ;-) If we absolutely need a feature in the GUI _now_ which i can't implement, i guess i will convince them to send out a bounty.
I've also not yet told them yet that we're not going to use Asterisk(Which they refer to when they talk about "my" project) :-P
Cheers, Christian
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On 3 March 2011 19:22, Aza Tek <azatek0@gmail.com> wrote:
Going back to PHP?? Not sure that's a very wise move. WikiPBX is great, it just needs more people. If you have a bounty to spend on additional features, it'd be better spent on wikipbx.
If i had my way, i would hire a webdev and let him/her implement a GUI which exactly fits our needs. But not doable yet, as explained above. If there's a bounty, it would be for quickly hacking together a visual representation of minor features which are not yet in the existing GUIs - since it would take me four times as long as an experienced dev to do it in PHP/FusionPBX, i mentioned the bounty(Where i don't even know if i get a budget). I'm still thinking to take a look at wikiPBX though, as there unfortunately where no answers besides "this is better than that" ;-) (Hope that's not because my initial mail was too fuzzy) blue.box has released a virtualbox-image, so i'm going to try that today :-) Regards, Christian
participants (4)
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Avi Marcus
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Aza Tek
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Christian Benke
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Michael Collins