[Freeswitch-users] Call For Help: Janitor Projects

Wed Apr 1 13:29:31 PDT 2009

 You tried to be nice! Give me a break. Maybe try harder next time.

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Minessale <anthony.minessale at gmail.com>
To: freeswitch-users at lists.freeswitch.org
Sent: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:23 am
Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Call For Help: Janitor Projects

Did you follow the link I posted?
http://www.google.com/search?q=janitor+project

The linux kernel calls it the same thing and so do all the other project that come up in that search.

Would you prefer "Custodial Engineering projects"

I tried to be nice but you continue to perpetuate this thread.

Another term you may not be familiar with is when someone who is outnumbered starts trying to

get the last word on a mailing list or forum, they're called "trolls"

Exactly how much have you contributed to this project other than complaints?
You initially contacted us at our consulting address, where we then called you on the phone and helped you for 2 hours for free even though we know your goal is to develop a product from FreeSWITCH and most people in your position offer to pay us for our time.? (make as many products as you want, that's why we made FreeSWITCH so good for you, but, usually if you want *that much* help you have to pay for it)

You started using modules that were just written at the time you came around on a platform on which the module only was compiling for a week, give us a break.....

We have all helped you on the list and documented things *for you* on several dozen occasions.

I don't want anything in return but for you to please stop commenting on this thread.

This is not a mob rule project, I will make the decisions for it when I see fit and when I seek the input of others, I ask for it and when I don't want any input I do whatever I want.? It's a perk of running your own project.? I personally don't care what Collins calls it, janitor project or whatever, at least he is show initiative and getting people involved.

2009/4/1  <mszlazak at aol.com>

 Pardon me, but you speak only for yourself. I think Janitor is not an appropriate word.

Second, 'marketing and sales' does not only mean making money. It also means 'selling' someone on the idea of trying something and effectively spreading the word.

 Third, the original developers can spend most of their time developing because they're the creators so they know very well what's going on with the code and don't need good documentation. Others need good documentation to effectively work with FS or do development. Currently the documentation is scattered, assumes to much and is outdated/incorrected. Also, there is a problem with not getting the "creators" involved with documentation since someone doing the documentation will have to ask them what's what. The "creators" never will be totally out of the loop nor should they be. This doesn't apply only here in this context but other similar ones as well. Keeping? "creators" from inteact with "customers" is one big reason so many start-ups fail. 

-----Original Message-----

From: Raul Fragoso <raul at etellicom.com>

To: freeswitch-users at lists.freeswitch.org

Sent: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 1:29 am

Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Call For Help: Janitor Projects

Pardon my honesty, but I think you are the one who is getting this

backwards.

Firstly, I fail to see why a call for help with organizing and cleaning

up the project documentation would offend someone by simply having

"janitor" as the name. Have you ever heard the term "gatekeeper"

before ? Would it offend you ? Think again.

Secondly, FreeSWITCH is an open-source project, so forget the 'marketing

& sales' crap in the context of documentation. The success of the

project, which is growing incredibly fast, is built upon the

collaboration of the community as a whole, and it's common sense that

sharing the project tasks is a major necessary step to keep it going,

just like a janitor is of primordial importance to keep an office

building organized and clean.

Last but not the least, I agree entirely with the fact that the core

developers should be doing what they do it best, and that is, of course,

development. I see this call for help request as an effective way of

keeping them developing new features and improving the current

functionality of FreeSWITCH while sharing the burden of documentation

and organization. That's fair and sounds very logical to me. If you join

the FreeSWITCH IRC channel and hang in there for a bit you will

understand what I mean, most of the time these guys are busy responding

to user questions or analyzing use cases that could be easily solved by

checking a more organized documentation, and this is what Michael's

request is all about.

Regards,

Raul

On Wed, 2009-04-01 at 02:21 -0400, mszlazak at aol.com wrote:

> First off. I would not call it a "janitors project" since that may

> offend some. A second problem is your notion that documentation is

> "not-quite-as-important" a task as writing code. I'm think many would

> say you have that backwards. There is nothing more effective in

> evolving FreeSwitch than good documentation which helps further

> development and is an important part of "customer service." Good

> customer service is then a part of "sales and marketing." Much more

> often than not, It's sales and marketing that is more important to

> making something a "real product"  than engineering. "Build it and

> they will come" almost never works.

> 

> Anyway, I think you need a new name for this project.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Michael Collins <msc at freeswitch.org>

> To: freeswitch-users at lists.freeswitch.org

> <freeswitch-users at lists.freeswitch.org>;

> freeswitch-dev at lists.freeswitch.org

> Sent: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 5:10 pm

> Subject: [Freeswitch-users] Call For Help: Janitor Projects

> 

> Dear FreeSWITCH Community:

> 

> As you know, FreeSWITCH has been growing leaps and bounds and it's

> going to keep growing as the word spreads. The core development team

> of Anthony, Mike, and Brian are very appreciative of the community's

> help and involvement in the project. Simply put: the community is

> awesome!

> 

> Some have asked how they can help. Most of us are not software

> developers, but that doesn't mean we can't help to grow the FreeSWITCH

> ecosystem. To this end I've started a "janitor projects" wiki page:

> 

> http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Janitor_Projects

> 

> We say "janitor" projects because they are things that help keep the

> project clean and organized, just like the janitor cleans an office,

> takes out the trash, replaces the toilet paper, etc. These are

> valuable services that we sometimes take for granted. However, I think

> we can all appreciate that the FreeSWITCH project would be better

> served if the developers could focus on writing code, fixing bugs,

> etc. and not on the easier, not-quite-as-important janitorial tasks.

> To that end we are inviting all who wish to volunteer to please visit

> the above wiki page and check out some of the projects listed so far.

> Email me off list if you'd like to volunteer to help. I'm maintaining

> a list of "janitors" and what they are helping with. If you have ideas

> for other janitor projects then by all means email them to me and

> we'll discuss them.

> 

> Thanks again for being such a great community!

> 

> -Michael S Collins

> IRC: mercutioviz

> 

> See you at ClueCon 2009!  http://www.cluecon.com

> 

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Anthony Minessale II

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