MInimal Hardware requirements - G729
Hi there, it is my intention to buy 100 g729 sw codecs from FS to setup a mee -me conference system.Which are the minimal hw requirements to support 100 conference legs where all the codecs implied are G729 ? ( meaning no transcoding from pcmu->G729 and viceversa). Thx in advance Michele
In this case there is no need to purchase any G729 software licenses at all if you are doing all of this in passthrough mode (meaning both ends are g729 codecs and FS is just simply passing them through). The default G729 codec that is included with FS is passthrough. You could also look into this: http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Proxy_Media or this http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Bypass_Media On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:57 AM, Michele M <mchlmll@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi there,
it is my intention to buy 100 g729 sw codecs from FS to setup a mee -me conference system.Which are the minimal hw requirements to support 100 conference legs where all the codecs implied are G729 ? ( meaning no transcoding from pcmu->G729 and viceversa).
Thx in advance
Michele _________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
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Whoops, I didn't read the question throughly... Yeah, for about 100 calls or so, I'd personally just get a hardware transcoder card instead of purchasing 100 software g729 licenses to do the job with the conference calls. iirc, g729 is quite CPU and resource demanding. On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:16 AM, curriegrad2004 <curriegrad2004@gmail.com> wrote:
In this case there is no need to purchase any G729 software licenses at all if you are doing all of this in passthrough mode (meaning both ends are g729 codecs and FS is just simply passing them through). The default G729 codec that is included with FS is passthrough.
You could also look into this: http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Proxy_Media or this http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Bypass_Media
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:57 AM, Michele M <mchlmll@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi there,
it is my intention to buy 100 g729 sw codecs from FS to setup a mee -me conference system.Which are the minimal hw requirements to support 100 conference legs where all the codecs implied are G729 ? ( meaning no transcoding from pcmu->G729 and viceversa).
Thx in advance
Michele _________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
Keep in Mind that Mod_conference (and anyone elses conference software for that matter) take everything to slinear for mixing. Unfortunately you cant mix encoded auto with encoded audio very well. So far 100 Channels in a conf bridge, he would require 100 licenses. K On 11/28/11 9:16 AM, "curriegrad2004" <curriegrad2004@gmail.com> wrote:
In this case there is no need to purchase any G729 software licenses at all if you are doing all of this in passthrough mode (meaning both ends are g729 codecs and FS is just simply passing them through). The default G729 codec that is included with FS is passthrough.
You could also look into
this: http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Proxy_Media or this http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Bypass_Media
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:57 AM, Michele M <mchlmll@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi there, it is my intention to buy 100 g729 sw codecs from FS to setup a meet-me conference system.Which are the minimal hw requirements to support 100 conference legs where all the codecs implied are G729 ? ( meaning no transcoding from pcmu->G729 and viceversa).
Thx in advance
Michele
Ok, but again , hardware requirements? (CPU, RAM, etc, etc) 2011/11/28 Ken Rice <krice@freeswitch.org>
Keep in Mind that Mod_conference (and anyone elses conference software for that matter) take everything to slinear for mixing. Unfortunately you cant mix encoded auto with encoded audio very well.
So far 100 Channels in a conf bridge, he would require 100 licenses.
K
On 11/28/11 9:16 AM, "curriegrad2004" <curriegrad2004@gmail.com> wrote:
In this case there is no need to purchase any G729 software licenses at all if you are doing all of this in passthrough mode (meaning both ends are g729 codecs and FS is just simply passing them through). The default G729 codec that is included with FS is passthrough.
You could also look into
this: http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Proxy_Media or this http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Bypass_Media
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:57 AM, Michele M <mchlmll@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi there, it is my intention to buy 100 g729 sw codecs from FS to setup a meet-me conference system.Which are the minimal hw requirements to support 100 conference legs where all the codecs implied are G729 ? ( meaning no transcoding from pcmu->G729 and viceversa).
Thx in advance
Michele
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
Please deposit twenty five cents for the next 10 seconds. You know this is outlined on the wiki... YOU will still need to benchmark YOUR application for YOUR needs to ensure that YOU do not exceed YOUR platforms capabilities because its different for EVERYONE! /b On Nov 29, 2011, at 2:55 AM, Michele M wrote:
Ok, but again , hardware requirements? (CPU, RAM, etc, etc)
You're going to pay $1000 for G729 software licenses. Sangoma cards include the license in the cost of the card and the transcoding frees up CPU resources for other things. I'm not sure of the pricing but you can probably get a 100 channel Sangoma card for less than you're going to pay in software licenses. When you start getting in the > 100 channel range you should really, really be using a Sangoma card. There's very little reason not to. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:55 AM, Michele M <mchlmll@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok, but again , hardware requirements? (CPU, RAM, etc, etc)
2011/11/28 Ken Rice <krice@freeswitch.org>
Keep in Mind that Mod_conference (and anyone elses conference software for that matter) take everything to slinear for mixing. Unfortunately you cant mix encoded auto with encoded audio very well.
So far 100 Channels in a conf bridge, he would require 100 licenses.
K
On 11/28/11 9:16 AM, "curriegrad2004" <curriegrad2004@gmail.com> wrote:
In this case there is no need to purchase any G729 software licenses at all if you are doing all of this in passthrough mode (meaning both ends are g729 codecs and FS is just simply passing them through). The default G729 codec that is included with FS is passthrough.
You could also look into
this: http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Proxy_Media or this http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Bypass_Media
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:57 AM, Michele M <mchlmll@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi there, it is my intention to buy 100 g729 sw codecs from FS to setup a meet-me conference system.Which are the minimal hw requirements to support 100 conference legs where all the codecs implied are G729 ? ( meaning no transcoding from pcmu->G729 and viceversa).
Thx in advance
Michele
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
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-- Kristian Kielhofner
Not to mention at a conference call type of setup, you'd need extra processing done on the machine that's handling approx. 100 users at any given time on G729, as I already said above, start considering with using a hardware transcoding card from sangoma or etc. As funny as it may seem, your CPU in your box wasn't really designed to behave or act like a DSP, although Intel tried to :P On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Kristian Kielhofner <kris@kriskinc.com> wrote:
You're going to pay $1000 for G729 software licenses.
Sangoma cards include the license in the cost of the card and the transcoding frees up CPU resources for other things. I'm not sure of the pricing but you can probably get a 100 channel Sangoma card for less than you're going to pay in software licenses.
When you start getting in the > 100 channel range you should really, really be using a Sangoma card. There's very little reason not to.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:55 AM, Michele M <mchlmll@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok, but again , hardware requirements? (CPU, RAM, etc, etc)
2011/11/28 Ken Rice <krice@freeswitch.org>
Keep in Mind that Mod_conference (and anyone elses conference software for that matter) take everything to slinear for mixing. Unfortunately you cant mix encoded auto with encoded audio very well.
So far 100 Channels in a conf bridge, he would require 100 licenses.
K
On 11/28/11 9:16 AM, "curriegrad2004" <curriegrad2004@gmail.com> wrote:
In this case there is no need to purchase any G729 software licenses at all if you are doing all of this in passthrough mode (meaning both ends are g729 codecs and FS is just simply passing them through). The default G729 codec that is included with FS is passthrough.
You could also look into
this: http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Proxy_Media or this http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Bypass_Media
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:57 AM, Michele M <mchlmll@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi there, it is my intention to buy 100 g729 sw codecs from FS to setup a meet-me conference system.Which are the minimal hw requirements to support 100 conference legs where all the codecs implied are G729 ? ( meaning no transcoding from pcmu->G729 and viceversa).
Thx in advance
Michele
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
-- Kristian Kielhofner
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
I currently run freeswith in a VM environment in the cloud, does this mean for G729 license I will run into issues with anything above 100 channels? Would have never imagined that... Any input to this will help with FS and G729 trans-coding requirements. Thanks David
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:18:02 -0800 From: curriegrad2004@gmail.com To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] MInimal Hardware requirements - G729
Not to mention at a conference call type of setup, you'd need extra processing done on the machine that's handling approx. 100 users at any given time on G729, as I already said above, start considering with using a hardware transcoding card from sangoma or etc.
As funny as it may seem, your CPU in your box wasn't really designed to behave or act like a DSP, although Intel tried to :P
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Kristian Kielhofner <kris@kriskinc.com> wrote:
You're going to pay $1000 for G729 software licenses.
Sangoma cards include the license in the cost of the card and the transcoding frees up CPU resources for other things. I'm not sure of the pricing but you can probably get a 100 channel Sangoma card for less than you're going to pay in software licenses.
When you start getting in the > 100 channel range you should really, really be using a Sangoma card. There's very little reason not to.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:55 AM, Michele M <mchlmll@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok, but again , hardware requirements? (CPU, RAM, etc, etc)
2011/11/28 Ken Rice <krice@freeswitch.org>
Keep in Mind that Mod_conference (and anyone elses conference software for that matter) take everything to slinear for mixing. Unfortunately you cant mix encoded auto with encoded audio very well.
So far 100 Channels in a conf bridge, he would require 100 licenses.
K
On 11/28/11 9:16 AM, "curriegrad2004" <curriegrad2004@gmail.com> wrote:
In this case there is no need to purchase any G729 software licenses at all if you are doing all of this in passthrough mode (meaning both ends are g729 codecs and FS is just simply passing them through). The default G729 codec that is included with FS is passthrough.
You could also look into
this: http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Proxy_Media or this http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Bypass_Media
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:57 AM, Michele M <mchlmll@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi there, it is my intention to buy 100 g729 sw codecs from FS to setup a meet-me conference system.Which are the minimal hw requirements to support 100 conference legs where all the codecs implied are G729 ? ( meaning no transcoding from pcmu->G729 and viceversa).
Thx in advance
Michele
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
-- Kristian Kielhofner
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
Having over 100 G729 channels in software is fine but as I said there are very few cases where you'd want to do that because G729 hardware offers many advantages. The case you pointed out (VM in the cloud) would certainly be an exception. While there are inherent problems with any VoIP in VM environments I'll ignore them for the purposes of this discussion. Look back through the archives and see how many threads have started with "I'm running in a VM and I'm having RTP problems"... VM environments work well for moderate to low loads as hardware has gotten faster (combine eight moderately loaded web servers on one large server, etc). As you start using 100 channels of G729 (and conferencing, etc) you start leaving less room for other hosts on a VM. This begins to destroy the economic advantage of a VM. Additionally, a 120 channel Sangoma card costs about $1000. That's 20 more G729 channels that you'd get with software AND it won't generate as much heat or use as much power (or your CPU can be free for other things). I'd be interested to see the math on hosted VM + 100 software G729 channels (and CPU usage to go along with it) vs. Relatively low end dedicated server with Sangoma card. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:34 AM, David Lawal <dflawal@hotmail.com> wrote:
I currently run freeswith in a VM environment in the cloud, does this mean for G729 license I will run into issues with anything above 100 channels? Would have never imagined that... Any input to this will help with FS and G729 trans-coding requirements. Thanks David
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:18:02 -0800 From: curriegrad2004@gmail.com To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] MInimal Hardware requirements - G729
Not to mention at a conference call type of setup, you'd need extra processing done on the machine that's handling approx. 100 users at any given time on G729, as I already said above, start considering with using a hardware transcoding card from sangoma or etc.
As funny as it may seem, your CPU in your box wasn't really designed to behave or act like a DSP, although Intel tried to :P
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Kristian Kielhofner <kris@kriskinc.com> wrote:
You're going to pay $1000 for G729 software licenses.
Sangoma cards include the license in the cost of the card and the transcoding frees up CPU resources for other things. I'm not sure of the pricing but you can probably get a 100 channel Sangoma card for less than you're going to pay in software licenses.
When you start getting in the > 100 channel range you should really, really be using a Sangoma card. There's very little reason not to.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:55 AM, Michele M <mchlmll@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok, but again , hardware requirements? (CPU, RAM, etc, etc)
2011/11/28 Ken Rice <krice@freeswitch.org>
Keep in Mind that Mod_conference (and anyone elses conference software for that matter) take everything to slinear for mixing. Unfortunately you cant mix encoded auto with encoded audio very well.
So far 100 Channels in a conf bridge, he would require 100 licenses.
K
On 11/28/11 9:16 AM, "curriegrad2004" <curriegrad2004@gmail.com> wrote:
In this case there is no need to purchase any G729 software licenses at all if you are doing all of this in passthrough mode (meaning both ends are g729 codecs and FS is just simply passing them through). The default G729 codec that is included with FS is passthrough.
You could also look into
this: http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Proxy_Media or this http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Bypass_Media
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:57 AM, Michele M <mchlmll@gmail.com> > wrote:
> Hi there, it is my intention to buy 100 g729 sw codecs from FS to setup a > meet-me conference system.Which are the minimal hw requirements to support > 100 conference legs where all the codecs implied are G729 ? ( > meaning > no > transcoding from pcmu->G729 and viceversa).
Thx in advance
Michele
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
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_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
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-- Kristian Kielhofner
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
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_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
-- Kristian Kielhofner
Michele M wrote
( meaning no transcoding from pcmu->G729 and viceversa). If you don't do a transcoding, then perhaps you can just use the free G729 pass-thru CoDec and no need to pay for any licenses.
----- FreeSWITCH hosted on a Seagate DockStar with OpenWRT and ONLY consumes 3 Watts of electricity. -- View this message in context: http://freeswitch-users.2379917.n2.nabble.com/MInimal-Hardware-requirements-... Sent from the freeswitch-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
mazilo: that's a little bit on the tricky side to do it with conference calls... I just realized it when I started to drink my first coffee of the day lol... On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:22 AM, mazilo <Nabble_01394@slickdeals.endjunk.com> wrote:
Michele M wrote
( meaning no transcoding from pcmu->G729 and viceversa). If you don't do a transcoding, then perhaps you can just use the free G729 pass-thru CoDec and no need to pay for any licenses.
----- FreeSWITCH hosted on a Seagate DockStar with OpenWRT and ONLY consumes 3 Watts of electricity. -- View this message in context: http://freeswitch-users.2379917.n2.nabble.com/MInimal-Hardware-requirements-... Sent from the freeswitch-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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participants (7)
-
Brian West
-
curriegrad2004
-
David Lawal
-
Ken Rice
-
Kristian Kielhofner
-
mazilo
-
Michele M