Hi everyone, Did someone ever try and implement a VXML interface on freeswitch? Or do you think it's a good idea? Or not? Since it is an actual standard, I guess there might be a market for application service providers. Remko
To the best of my knowledge no one has created an interface for this. I'm sure one will be created if and when the market demand gets high enough. -MC On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Remko Kloosterman <R.Kloosterman@mtel.nl>wrote:
Hi everyone,
Did someone ever try and implement a VXML interface on freeswitch? Or do you think it's a good idea? Or not? Since it is an actual standard, I guess there might be a market for application service providers.
Remko
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Great Idea. Try setting up the exact same dialogue with say Voxeo's VoiceXML system and then with Javascript/Lua and pocketsphinx. It's an order of magnitude faster with VoiceXML. I don't know went demand will pick up for VXML on FS but one issue that I think will block it is how robust the FS embedding of pocketsphinx is to the harsh noisy enviroment of telephony. Currently, it lacks this "robustness" compared to vendor products but once that happens then more will want to use it and VXML will become more in demand? ... hopefully. -----Original Message----- From: Remko Kloosterman <R.Kloosterman@mtel.nl> To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Sent: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:57 am Subject: [Freeswitch-users] VoiceXML Hi everyone, ? Did someone ever try and implement a VXML interface on freeswitch? Or do you think it's a good idea? Or not? Since it is an actual standard, I guess there might be a market for application service providers. ? Remko _______________________________________________ Freeswitch-users mailing list Freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
FreeSWITCH has a generic ASR interface to plug into any asr engine. The quality of the integrated free asr has little to do with VXML. If you want more robust asr, you will likely need to pay for it. Mike On Apr 21, 2009, at 2:35 PM, mszlazak@aol.com wrote:
Great Idea. Try setting up the exact same dialogue with say Voxeo's VoiceXML system and then with Javascript/Lua and pocketsphinx. It's an order of magnitude faster with VoiceXML. I don't know went demand will pick up for VXML on FS but one issue that I think will block it is how robust the FS embedding of pocketsphinx is to the harsh noisy enviroment of telephony. Currently, it lacks this "robustness" compared to vendor products but once that happens then more will want to use it and VXML will become more in demand ... hopefully.
On Tue, 2009-04-21 at 14:35 -0400, mszlazak@aol.com wrote:
Great Idea. Try setting up the exact same dialogue with say Voxeo's VoiceXML system and then with Javascript/Lua and pocketsphinx. It's an order of magnitude faster with VoiceXML.
Out of interest, is that using some RAD tool or coding directly in VoiceXML? I ask because VoiceXML strikes me as being a bastard abomination of the highest order, whose sole saving grace is that it's a standardised bastard abomination. Or is Pocketsphinx the problem? Cheers -- Dave
I was initially turned off by VXML when it came out because the first way they tried to make money off it was to sell the clients that let you build the actual xml. I was not really motivated to pay money to be able to just generate xml just so i could code a free server for it so I lost interest. I did hear there is now finally a free one out there. so that may make it a little more reasonable. I've commented in the past that I'm totally open to supporting VXML but we have never had the public interest, time or resources to work on it thus far. On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 6:15 PM, David Knell <dave@3c.co.uk> wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-21 at 14:35 -0400, mszlazak@aol.com wrote:
Great Idea. Try setting up the exact same dialogue with say Voxeo's VoiceXML system and then with Javascript/Lua and pocketsphinx. It's an order of magnitude faster with VoiceXML.
Out of interest, is that using some RAD tool or coding directly in VoiceXML? I ask because VoiceXML strikes me as being a bastard abomination of the highest order, whose sole saving grace is that it's a standardised bastard abomination.
Or is Pocketsphinx the problem?
Cheers --
Dave
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-- Anthony Minessale II FreeSWITCH http://www.freeswitch.org/ ClueCon http://www.cluecon.com/ AIM: anthm MSN:anthony_minessale@hotmail.com <MSN%3Aanthony_minessale@hotmail.com> GTALK/JABBER/PAYPAL:anthony.minessale@gmail.com<PAYPAL%3Aanthony.minessale@gmail.com> IRC: irc.freenode.net #freeswitch FreeSWITCH Developer Conference sip:888@conference.freeswitch.org <sip%3A888@conference.freeswitch.org> iax:guest@conference.freeswitch.org/888 googletalk:conf+888@conference.freeswitch.org<googletalk%3Aconf%2B888@conference.freeswitch.org> pstn:213-799-1400
I agree that the original commercial model used for VXML gets in the way of it's own success. It's also focussed way too much on ASR/TTS. I think we can all agree this technology is still a future promise, even after 10+ years. But technically VXML is an interesting concept, especially together with related standards like ccxml (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_Control_eXtensible_Markup_Language). The latter supports call transfer and conferencing. Every VoIP and TDM product I've worked with in the past has it's own application interface or is bound to an interface that's tailored for a special use (like pbx). I've also used voxeo's callxml, that's implemented with the CosmoCom ACD product. It's implementation is crappy, but the concept is nice. The idea of separating callcontrol+media (voice/swithing core) and application+ivr logic (vxml webserver cgi scripts) sounds rather appealing to me. Do you known the name of the free VXML editor/client that's out there? ________________________________ Van: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] Namens Anthony Minessale Verzonden: woensdag 22 april 2009 3:58 Aan: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Onderwerp: Re: [Freeswitch-users] VoiceXML I was initially turned off by VXML when it came out because the first way they tried to make money off it was to sell the clients that let you build the actual xml. I was not really motivated to pay money to be able to just generate xml just so i could code a free server for it so I lost interest. I did hear there is now finally a free one out there. so that may make it a little more reasonable. I've commented in the past that I'm totally open to supporting VXML but we have never had the public interest, time or resources to work on it thus far. On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 6:15 PM, David Knell <dave@3c.co.uk> wrote: On Tue, 2009-04-21 at 14:35 -0400, mszlazak@aol.com wrote: > Great Idea. > Try setting up the exact same dialogue with say Voxeo's VoiceXML > system and then with Javascript/Lua and pocketsphinx. It's an order of > magnitude faster with VoiceXML. Out of interest, is that using some RAD tool or coding directly in VoiceXML? I ask because VoiceXML strikes me as being a bastard abomination of the highest order, whose sole saving grace is that it's a standardised bastard abomination. Or is Pocketsphinx the problem? Cheers -- Dave _______________________________________________ Freeswitch-users mailing list Freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org -- Anthony Minessale II FreeSWITCH http://www.freeswitch.org/ ClueCon http://www.cluecon.com/ AIM: anthm MSN:anthony_minessale@hotmail.com <mailto:MSN%3Aanthony_minessale@hotmail.com> GTALK/JABBER/PAYPAL:anthony.minessale@gmail.com <mailto:PAYPAL%3Aanthony.minessale@gmail.com> IRC: irc.freenode.net #freeswitch FreeSWITCH Developer Conference sip:888@conference.freeswitch.org <mailto:sip%3A888@conference.freeswitch.org> iax:guest@conference.freeswitch.org/888 googletalk:conf+888@conference.freeswitch.org <mailto:googletalk%3Aconf%2B888@conference.freeswitch.org> pstn:213-799-1400
Directly in vxml. -----Original Message----- From: David Knell <dave@3c.co.uk> To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Sent: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 4:15 pm Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] VoiceXML On Tue, 2009-04-21 at 14:35 -0400, mszlazak@aol.com wrote:
Great Idea. Try setting up the exact same dialogue with say Voxeo's VoiceXML system and then with Javascript/Lua and pocketsphinx. It's an order of magnitude faster with VoiceXML.
Out of interest, is that using some RAD tool or coding directly in VoiceXML? I ask because VoiceXML strikes me as being a bastard abomination of the highest order, whose sole saving grace is that it's a standardised bastard abomination. Or is Pocketsphinx the problem? Cheers -- Dave _______________________________________________ Freeswitch-users mailing list Freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
Isn't ASR optional in VXML? /b On Apr 21, 2009, at 6:15 PM, David Knell wrote:
Out of interest, is that using some RAD tool or coding directly in VoiceXML? I ask because VoiceXML strikes me as being a bastard abomination of the highest order, whose sole saving grace is that it's a standardised bastard abomination.
Or is Pocketsphinx the problem?
Cheers --
Dave
Brian West brian@freeswitch.org -- Meet us at ClueCon! http://www.cluecon.com
You can use VXML without ASR, but ASR and TTS are both required parts of the specs. Mike On Apr 21, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Brian West wrote:
Isn't ASR optional in VXML?
/b
On Apr 21, 2009, at 6:15 PM, David Knell wrote:
Out of interest, is that using some RAD tool or coding directly in VoiceXML? I ask because VoiceXML strikes me as being a bastard abomination of the highest order, whose sole saving grace is that it's a standardised bastard abomination.
Or is Pocketsphinx the problem?
For compliance it's needed to support it, but it's not actually needed to make a working application. You can just use wave files like this: <form id="MainMenu"> <block> <audio src="helloworld.wav"/> </block> </form> Voxeo actually has a nice set of tutorials and reference material on it: http://www.vxml.org/ -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] Namens Michael Jerris Verzonden: woensdag 22 april 2009 7:12 Aan: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Onderwerp: Re: [Freeswitch-users] VoiceXML You can use VXML without ASR, but ASR and TTS are both required parts of the specs. Mike On Apr 21, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Brian West wrote:
Isn't ASR optional in VXML?
/b
On Apr 21, 2009, at 6:15 PM, David Knell wrote:
Out of interest, is that using some RAD tool or coding directly in VoiceXML? I ask because VoiceXML strikes me as being a bastard abomination of the highest order, whose sole saving grace is that it's a standardised bastard abomination.
Or is Pocketsphinx the problem?
_______________________________________________ Freeswitch-users mailing list Freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
If you don't like vxml then here is a post on voicePHP http://www.speechtechblog.com/2009/04/22/voicexml-to-go-down-in-the-third-sa... It's from a vendor but there might be some good ideas to get from what they are doing. FreeSWITCH needs demand to get vxml and it's not there yet. For now, it looks like the FS community is waiting for demand instead of trying to create it. David Knell wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-21 at 14:35 -0400, mszlazak@aol.com wrote:
Great Idea. Try setting up the exact same dialogue with say Voxeo's VoiceXML system and then with Javascript/Lua and pocketsphinx. It's an order of magnitude faster with VoiceXML.
Out of interest, is that using some RAD tool or coding directly in VoiceXML? I ask because VoiceXML strikes me as being a bastard abomination of the highest order, whose sole saving grace is that it's a standardised bastard abomination.
Or is Pocketsphinx the problem?
Cheers --
Dave
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On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:49 PM, mszlazak <mszlazak@aol.com> wrote:
If you don't like vxml then here is a post on voicePHP
http://www.speechtechblog.com/2009/04/22/voicexml-to-go-down-in-the-third-sa...
It's from a vendor but there might be some good ideas to get from what they are doing.
Interesting, except for the PHP part. ;)
FreeSWITCH needs demand to get vxml and it's not there yet. For now, it looks like the FS community is waiting for demand instead of trying to create it.
Correct. VXML does need us to create demand. If it is as awesome as some would have us believe then the market will drive the demand. -MC
Well, far to many times awesome things died because there was nothing that created the demand. After all, "build it and they will come" just gets business people "rolling their eyes." Ask yourself how much crap gets sold just because of creating demand while the good stuff struggles because no demand is being created. Happens all the time from cloths to entertainment to tech to health care. Now, you maybe right that vxml isn't awesome but that wasn't my experience. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Collins <msc@freeswitch.org> To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Sent: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 1:09 pm Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] VoiceXML On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:49 PM, mszlazak <mszlazak@aol.com> wrote: If you don't like vxml then here is a post on voicePHP http://www.speechtechblog.com/2009/04/22/voicexml-to-go-down-in-the-third-sa... It's from a vendor but there might be some good ideas to get from what they are doing. Interesting, except for the PHP part. ;) ? FreeSWITCH needs demand to get vxml and it's not there yet. For now, it looks like the FS community is waiting for demand instead of trying to create it. Correct. VXML does need us to create demand. If it is as awesome as some would have us believe then the market will drive the demand. -MC _______________________________________________ Freeswitch-users mailing list Freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
Just sticking 'voice' in front of something doesn't automatically make it a good tool for developing voice applications - there's more marketing here than anything else. And it's not like adding extensions to an existing language to provide IVR control is anything new: it's exactly what you get if you develop for FS in Javascript, Lua or any of its other supported languages.
From my point of view, as a programmer, VoiceXML is the wrong idiom for development of IVR/telephony services; a procedural language works just fine. I suspect that I'm not alone, and I further suspect that that's why there's no real push to get VoiceXML supported.
--Dave
If you don't like vxml then here is a post on voicePHP
http://www.speechtechblog.com/2009/04/22/voicexml-to-go-down-in-the-third-sa...
It's from a vendor but there might be some good ideas to get from what they are doing.
FreeSWITCH needs demand to get vxml and it's not there yet. For now, it looks like the FS community is waiting for demand instead of trying to create it.
David Knell wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-21 at 14:35 -0400, mszlazak@aol.com wrote:
Great Idea. Try setting up the exact same dialogue with say Voxeo's VoiceXML system and then with Javascript/Lua and pocketsphinx. It's an order of magnitude faster with VoiceXML.
Out of interest, is that using some RAD tool or coding directly in VoiceXML? I ask because VoiceXML strikes me as being a bastard abomination of the highest order, whose sole saving grace is that it's a standardised bastard abomination.
Or is Pocketsphinx the problem?
Cheers --
Dave
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Well if it's for marketing reasons then maybe that's why FS should do it. After all, the idea is to get people to try something. Plus it is fast in making up a dialogue so someone can quickly test if this will work for what they want. In a previous post, Steve said many don't use it but Voxeo Forums do have posts daily on vxml. Maybe it's the first-timers getting their feet wet. David Knell wrote:
Just sticking 'voice' in front of something doesn't automatically make it a good tool for developing voice applications - there's more marketing here than anything else. And it's not like adding extensions to an existing language to provide IVR control is anything new: it's exactly what you get if you develop for FS in Javascript, Lua or any of its other supported languages.
From my point of view, as a programmer, VoiceXML is the wrong idiom for development of IVR/telephony services; a procedural language works just fine. I suspect that I'm not alone, and I further suspect that that's why there's no real push to get VoiceXML supported.
--Dave
If you don't like vxml then here is a post on voicePHP
http://www.speechtechblog.com/2009/04/22/voicexml-to-go-down-in-the-third-sa...
It's from a vendor but there might be some good ideas to get from what they are doing.
FreeSWITCH needs demand to get vxml and it's not there yet. For now, it looks like the FS community is waiting for demand instead of trying to create it.
David Knell wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-21 at 14:35 -0400, mszlazak@aol.com wrote:
Great Idea. Try setting up the exact same dialogue with say Voxeo's VoiceXML system and then with Javascript/Lua and pocketsphinx. It's an order of magnitude faster with VoiceXML.
Out of interest, is that using some RAD tool or coding directly in VoiceXML? I ask because VoiceXML strikes me as being a bastard abomination of the highest order, whose sole saving grace is that it's a standardised bastard abomination.
Or is Pocketsphinx the problem?
Cheers --
Dave
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Ya i think there is definately a disconnect between the peer circles that people run in. There is major adoption of voicexml by the "big boys", who dont care if the tool to generate voicexml costs money.. and between the smaller shops that are sensitive to costs like that. A key driver for voicexml is portability of the IVR script. And yes, i do realize that you can probably count on 1 hand how many real voicexml apps will run on any vendors interpreter with no modification. But the point is that you arent locked in as hard because 90% of your scripts will work anywhere. Think about it though... Why do you have to pay money to join the club (forum)? Why do you have to pay money to get certified? In my mind, keep all the open source projects from offering a low cost alternative and let them keep themselves occupied with religious arguments about the best way to format IVR scripts. You are dancing to their tune! Im not suggesting FS should have VoiceXML. As I have pointed out before on this list, the people that want VoiceXML dont want a half-baked implementation. Probably the worst thing to do, is just kinda sorta get it working.. and then gripe about the lack of adoption. Its all or nothing. If people want a RAD IVR environment, with no care of portability... then what FS offers is perfectly ok and why bother with VoiceXML. On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 9:39 PM, mszlazak <mszlazak@aol.com> wrote:
Well if it's for marketing reasons then maybe that's why FS should do it. After all, the idea is to get people to try something. Plus it is fast in making up a dialogue so someone can quickly test if this will work for what they want.
In a previous post, Steve said many don't use it but Voxeo Forums do have posts daily on vxml. Maybe it's the first-timers getting their feet wet.
David Knell wrote:
Just sticking 'voice' in front of something doesn't automatically make it a good tool for developing voice applications - there's more marketing here than anything else. And it's not like adding extensions to an existing language to provide IVR control is anything new: it's exactly what you get if you develop for FS in Javascript, Lua or any of its other supported languages.
From my point of view, as a programmer, VoiceXML is the wrong idiom for development of IVR/telephony services; a procedural language works just fine. I suspect that I'm not alone, and I further suspect that that's why there's no real push to get VoiceXML supported.
--Dave
If you don't like vxml then here is a post on voicePHP
http://www.speechtechblog.com/2009/04/22/voicexml-to-go-down-in-the-third-sa...
It's from a vendor but there might be some good ideas to get from what they are doing.
FreeSWITCH needs demand to get vxml and it's not there yet. For now, it looks like the FS community is waiting for demand instead of trying to create it.
David Knell wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-21 at 14:35 -0400, mszlazak@aol.com wrote:
Great Idea. Try setting up the exact same dialogue with say Voxeo's VoiceXML system and then with Javascript/Lua and pocketsphinx. It's an order
of
magnitude faster with VoiceXML.
Out of interest, is that using some RAD tool or coding directly in VoiceXML? I ask because VoiceXML strikes me as being a bastard abomination of the highest order, whose sole saving grace is that it's a standardised bastard abomination.
Or is Pocketsphinx the problem?
Cheers --
Dave
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I have worked with voxeo stuff in the past and also had good feelings about the VXML approach. I have to say that the freeswitch approach seems to be quite powerful, too, and much easier than doing IVR stuff in yate (that requires php programming) but significantly less than using CallButler (it provides a RAD environment that allows for fast (I say REALLY fast) IVR development and is quite effective for SMB (missing call queues and a little more scalability and reliability, though). Anyhow I was planning to integrate Zanzibar OpenIVR (that supports VoiceXML) with freeswitch but I tried CallButler and went with that. Honestly what I'm really missing in open source PBXs is italian language support for both ASR and TTS (with the exception of asterisk), not the lack of VoiceXML. Regards, Raffaele On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 07:39, Matt Porter <mporter@voice3g.com> wrote:
Ya i think there is definately a disconnect between the peer circles that people run in. There is major adoption of voicexml by the "big boys", who dont care if the tool to generate voicexml costs money.. and between the smaller shops that are sensitive to costs like that.
A key driver for voicexml is portability of the IVR script. And yes, i do realize that you can probably count on 1 hand how many real voicexml apps will run on any vendors interpreter with no modification.
But the point is that you arent locked in as hard because 90% of your scripts will work anywhere.
Think about it though... Why do you have to pay money to join the club (forum)? Why do you have to pay money to get certified?
In my mind, keep all the open source projects from offering a low cost alternative and let them keep themselves occupied with religious arguments about the best way to format IVR scripts.
You are dancing to their tune!
Im not suggesting FS should have VoiceXML. As I have pointed out before on this list, the people that want VoiceXML dont want a half-baked implementation. Probably the worst thing to do, is just kinda sorta get it working.. and then gripe about the lack of adoption. Its all or nothing.
If people want a RAD IVR environment, with no care of portability... then what FS offers is perfectly ok and why bother with VoiceXML.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 9:39 PM, mszlazak <mszlazak@aol.com> wrote:
Well if it's for marketing reasons then maybe that's why FS should do it. After all, the idea is to get people to try something. Plus it is fast in making up a dialogue so someone can quickly test if this will work for what they want.
In a previous post, Steve said many don't use it but Voxeo Forums do have posts daily on vxml. Maybe it's the first-timers getting their feet wet.
David Knell wrote:
Just sticking 'voice' in front of something doesn't automatically make it a good tool for developing voice applications - there's more marketing here than anything else. And it's not like adding extensions to an existing language to provide IVR control is anything new: it's exactly what you get if you develop for FS in Javascript, Lua or any of its other supported languages.
From my point of view, as a programmer, VoiceXML is the wrong idiom for development of IVR/telephony services; a procedural language works just fine. I suspect that I'm not alone, and I further suspect that that's why there's no real push to get VoiceXML supported.
--Dave
If you don't like vxml then here is a post on voicePHP
http://www.speechtechblog.com/2009/04/22/voicexml-to-go-down-in-the-third-sa...
It's from a vendor but there might be some good ideas to get from what they are doing.
FreeSWITCH needs demand to get vxml and it's not there yet. For now, it looks like the FS community is waiting for demand instead of trying to create it.
David Knell wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-21 at 14:35 -0400, mszlazak@aol.com wrote:
Great Idea. Try setting up the exact same dialogue with say Voxeo's VoiceXML system and then with Javascript/Lua and pocketsphinx. It's an order
of
magnitude faster with VoiceXML.
Out of interest, is that using some RAD tool or coding directly in VoiceXML? I ask because VoiceXML strikes me as being a bastard abomination of the highest order, whose sole saving grace is that it's a standardised bastard abomination.
Or is Pocketsphinx the problem?
Cheers --
Dave
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-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/VoiceXML-tp23161671p23208811.html Sent from the Freeswitch-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Although I'm not an active FS user, I've been following the discussions for some time.I have some previous experience with VXML (and even with SALT, if you still remember the misguided attempt by MS to highjack the standard.). Here are some thoughts: VXML was created mainly for speech applications, i.e. ASR and TTS. It comes with quite a bit of overhead, which, in my opinion, is not justified for the "classic" IVR development. Yes, the "big guys" use VXML, but many do so for reasons that are more political than technical. If you are a big company, you simply can't "ignore open-standards". A bit like the government. Very few projects are developed "directly in VXML". Most use RAD tools that give a much better programming environment, and actually "hide" VXML. In reality, very few projects rally care about "vendor independence". In fact, I've never heard of a significant voice app ported from one VXML gateway to another... In my opinion, the combination of speech-rec engines, VXML gateways and RAD tools, because of all this extra cost and complexity, does not fit well with the FS philosophy. So, unless there is a specific requirement for speech-rec, the FS developers would be better off using the great tools already available in FS. Andrew _____ From: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] On Behalf Of Matt Porter Sent: April-24-09 1:39 AM To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] VoiceXML Ya i think there is definately a disconnect between the peer circles that people run in. There is major adoption of voicexml by the "big boys", who dont care if the tool to generate voicexml costs money.. and between the smaller shops that are sensitive to costs like that. A key driver for voicexml is portability of the IVR script. And yes, i do realize that you can probably count on 1 hand how many real voicexml apps will run on any vendors interpreter with no modification. But the point is that you arent locked in as hard because 90% of your scripts will work anywhere. Think about it though... Why do you have to pay money to join the club (forum)? Why do you have to pay money to get certified? In my mind, keep all the open source projects from offering a low cost alternative and let them keep themselves occupied with religious arguments about the best way to format IVR scripts. You are dancing to their tune! Im not suggesting FS should have VoiceXML. As I have pointed out before on this list, the people that want VoiceXML dont want a half-baked implementation. Probably the worst thing to do, is just kinda sorta get it working.. and then gripe about the lack of adoption. Its all or nothing. If people want a RAD IVR environment, with no care of portability... then what FS offers is perfectly ok and why bother with VoiceXML. On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 9:39 PM, mszlazak <mszlazak@aol.com> wrote: Well if it's for marketing reasons then maybe that's why FS should do it. After all, the idea is to get people to try something. Plus it is fast in making up a dialogue so someone can quickly test if this will work for what they want. In a previous post, Steve said many don't use it but Voxeo Forums do have posts daily on vxml. Maybe it's the first-timers getting their feet wet. David Knell wrote:
Just sticking 'voice' in front of something doesn't automatically make it a good tool for developing voice applications - there's more marketing here than anything else. And it's not like adding extensions to an existing language to provide IVR control is anything new: it's exactly what you get if you develop for FS in Javascript, Lua or any of its other supported languages.
From my point of view, as a programmer, VoiceXML is the wrong idiom for development of IVR/telephony services; a procedural language works just fine. I suspect that I'm not alone, and I further suspect that that's why there's no real push to get VoiceXML supported.
--Dave
If you don't like vxml then here is a post on voicePHP
http://www.speechtechblog.com/2009/04/22/voicexml-to-go-down-in-the-third-sa ys-voicephp
It's from a vendor but there might be some good ideas to get from what they are doing.
FreeSWITCH needs demand to get vxml and it's not there yet. For now, it looks like the FS community is waiting for demand instead of trying to create it.
David Knell wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-21 at 14:35 -0400, mszlazak@aol.com wrote:
Great Idea. Try setting up the exact same dialogue with say Voxeo's VoiceXML system and then with Javascript/Lua and pocketsphinx. It's an order of magnitude faster with VoiceXML.
Out of interest, is that using some RAD tool or coding directly in VoiceXML? I ask because VoiceXML strikes me as being a bastard abomination of the highest order, whose sole saving grace is that it's a standardised bastard abomination.
Or is Pocketsphinx the problem?
Cheers --
Dave
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mszlazak wrote:
If you don't like vxml then here is a post on voicePHP
http://www.speechtechblog.com/2009/04/22/voicexml-to-go-down-in-the-third-sa...
It's from a vendor but there might be some good ideas to get from what they are doing.
FreeSWITCH needs demand to get vxml and it's not there yet. For now, it looks like the FS community is waiting for demand instead of trying to create it.
Its interesting how the VoiceXML pushers have been able to create the air in some circles that VoiceXML is the norm for IVR creation. Its actually pretty hard to find people who have ever used it. I think voiceXML has one big thing going for it - nothing else for IVR building has been standardised. Apart from that its really clunky. Only the most trivial examples look even moderately clean and readable. Steve
Composing an ivr with a visual tool and rendering it into something serialized that can be understood by many things is a good idea but every time someone makes a go at an open standard they don't present it with wide open and free tools to make and use it which always ends up ruining everything. I can't find the free composer for vxml docs now... maybe they changed their mind. I set out to make vxml for asterisk in 2004, at the time the only lib was openvxi and it was very hard to build. I got so sick of trying to build it that spidermonkey caught my eye "Hey, the xml is just turned into js code anyway!" So i thought i'd cut out the middleman and I wrote res_js for asterisk. They promptly wrote AEL and had no interest in the idea so it still sits in a tarball somewhere alone in the dark =D I ported the same idea to FS when the time came and thus mod_spidermonkey. I'm not sure i like how CCML uses XML like a language but i have not dove into it too deeply. but <if> tags? That scares me. I'm glad at least there is a discussion on this, maybe it would make a good cluecon talk this year. On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Steve Underwood <steveu@coppice.org> wrote:
mszlazak wrote:
If you don't like vxml then here is a post on voicePHP
http://www.speechtechblog.com/2009/04/22/voicexml-to-go-down-in-the-third-sa...
It's from a vendor but there might be some good ideas to get from what
they
are doing.
FreeSWITCH needs demand to get vxml and it's not there yet. For now, it looks like the FS community is waiting for demand instead of trying to create it.
Its interesting how the VoiceXML pushers have been able to create the air in some circles that VoiceXML is the norm for IVR creation. Its actually pretty hard to find people who have ever used it.
I think voiceXML has one big thing going for it - nothing else for IVR building has been standardised. Apart from that its really clunky. Only the most trivial examples look even moderately clean and readable.
Steve
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-- Anthony Minessale II FreeSWITCH http://www.freeswitch.org/ ClueCon http://www.cluecon.com/ AIM: anthm MSN:anthony_minessale@hotmail.com <MSN%3Aanthony_minessale@hotmail.com> GTALK/JABBER/PAYPAL:anthony.minessale@gmail.com<PAYPAL%3Aanthony.minessale@gmail.com> IRC: irc.freenode.net #freeswitch FreeSWITCH Developer Conference sip:888@conference.freeswitch.org <sip%3A888@conference.freeswitch.org> iax:guest@conference.freeswitch.org/888 googletalk:conf+888@conference.freeswitch.org<googletalk%3Aconf%2B888@conference.freeswitch.org> pstn:213-799-1400
Here is one editor to look into http://www.eclipse.org/vtp/ -E Gpro.ws http://TwiTR.Me (Cross Social Network Messaging Bus) http://WatchNtweet.Me (Watch and Chat/Tweet) SocialTV http://TwebEX.com (Twitter Based Online Web Conference Platform) http://TweetUp.ws (Twitter based MeetUp service)
Coincidentally (or not), Cisco's more high-end VRU Customer Voice Portal (CVP) uses Eclipse for its VXML editing. ________________________________ From: EdPimentl <edpimentl@gmail.com> To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:10:25 AM Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] VoiceXML Here is one editor to look into http://www.eclipse.org/vtp/ -E Gpro.ws http://TwiTR.Me (Cross Social Network Messaging Bus) http://WatchNtweet.Me (Watch and Chat/Tweet) SocialTV http://TwebEX.com (Twitter Based Online Web Conference Platform) http://TweetUp.ws (Twitter based MeetUp service)
Excellent! I wasn't aware of their development progress. Let's check it out. ________________________________ Van: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] Namens EdPimentl Verzonden: vrijdag 24 april 2009 15:10 Aan: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Onderwerp: Re: [Freeswitch-users] VoiceXML Here is one editor to look into http://www.eclipse.org/vtp/ -E Gpro.ws http://TwiTR.Me (Cross Social Network Messaging Bus) http://WatchNtweet.Me (Watch and Chat/Tweet) SocialTV http://TwebEX.com (Twitter Based Online Web Conference Platform) http://TweetUp.ws (Twitter based MeetUp service)
This was beyond what I was thinking about. I was plenty happy with just writing the vxml tags. But if this works well then go for it. -----Original Message----- From: Remko Kloosterman <R.Kloosterman@mtel.nl> To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Sent: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:31 pm Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] VoiceXML Excellent! I wasn't aware of?their development progress. Let's check it out. Van: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] Namens EdPimentl Verzonden: vrijdag 24 april 2009 15:10 Aan: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Onderwerp: Re: [Freeswitch-users] VoiceXML Here is one editor to look into http://www.eclipse.org/vtp/ -E Gpro.ws http://TwiTR.Me ? ? ? ? ?(Cross Social Network Messaging Bus) http://WatchNtweet.Me (Watch and Chat/Tweet) SocialTV http://TwebEX.com ? ? (Twitter Based Online Web Conference Platform) http://TweetUp.ws ? ? ?(Twitter based ?MeetUp service) _______________________________________________ Freeswitch-users mailing list Freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
As opposed to what?! I don't think anyone will claim that voicexml is super elegant... Only that it sucks the least On Apr 23, 2009, at 7:08 PM, Steve Underwood <steveu@coppice.org> wrote:
mszlazak wrote:
If you don't like vxml then here is a post on voicePHP
http://www.speechtechblog.com/2009/04/22/voicexml-to-go-down-in-the-third-sa...
It's from a vendor but there might be some good ideas to get from what they are doing.
FreeSWITCH needs demand to get vxml and it's not there yet. For now, it looks like the FS community is waiting for demand instead of trying to create it.
Its interesting how the VoiceXML pushers have been able to create the air in some circles that VoiceXML is the norm for IVR creation. Its actually pretty hard to find people who have ever used it.
I think voiceXML has one big thing going for it - nothing else for IVR building has been standardised. Apart from that its really clunky. Only the most trivial examples look even moderately clean and readable.
Steve
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participants (14)
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Andrew Kozminski
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Anthony Minessale
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Brian West
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David Knell
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EdPimentl
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Matt Porter
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Michael Collins
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Michael Jerris
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mszlazak
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mszlazak＠aol.com
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Paul
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Raffaele P. Guidi
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Remko Kloosterman
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Steve Underwood