Did you reloadxml and then reload mod_voicemail? -MC On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Pascal Taube <Pascal.Taube@gmx.de> wrote:
I changed <param name="max-record-len" value="300"/> at voicemail.conf.xml . It was set to 300 but it still ends the records after 30 seconds. Are there any other files i need to change? It just plays the file after the record of a message again. I didnt set vm-disk-quota.
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
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-- Michael S Collins Twitter: @mercutioviz http://www.FreeSWITCH.org http://www.ClueCon.com http://www.OSTAG.org
Try increasing this value as FS hangs up voicemail call when it detects silence. http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Mod_voicemail#record-silence-hits Robert From: Pascal Taube [mailto:Pascal.Taube@gmx.de] Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:18 AM To: FreeSWITCH Users Help Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds Yes, and before i edited it, it was set to 300, so i dont understand from where it gets the order to stop it after 30 seconds. Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 um 00:53 Uhr Von: "Michael Collins" <msc@freeswitch.org<mailto:msc@freeswitch.org>> An: "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org<mailto:freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org>> Betreff: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds Did you reloadxml and then reload mod_voicemail? -MC On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Pascal Taube <Pascal.Taube@gmx.de> wrote: I changed <param name="max-record-len" value="300"/> at voicemail.conf.xml . It was set to 300 but it still ends the records after 30 seconds. Are there any other files i need to change? It just plays the file after the record of a message again. I didnt set vm-disk-quota. _________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org -- Michael S Collins Twitter: @mercutioviz http://www.FreeSWITCH.org http://www.ClueCon.com http://www.OSTAG.org
Can you send out the debug logs so we can take a look? I assume regular calls aren't getting hung up at 30 seconds as well, right? From the Freeswitch command line type "console log level debug" then make the same call. The post them here: http://pastebin.freeswitch.org/ Nick On Apr 18, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Pascal Taube <Pascal.Taube@gmx.de> wrote:
I changed it. but the problem is still there ...
Small review:
-The voicemail stops recording after 30 seconds. - the max record length ( <param name="max-record-len" value="300"/> ) was already set to 300 -i highered it to 500, but nothing changed - i increased the silence value, but nothing changed. - everytime i reloaded the xml and the mod - at the log i only see that its playing the new file- no error or sth.
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 um 17:42 Uhr Von: "Robert Hadley" <robert.hadley@teotech.com> An: "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> Betreff: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds
Try increasing this value as FS hangs up voicemail call when it detects silence.
http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Mod_voicemail#record-silence-hits
Robert
From: Pascal Taube [mailto:Pascal.Taube@gmx.de] Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:18 AM To: FreeSWITCH Users Help Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds
Yes, and before i edited it, it was set to 300, so i dont understand from where it gets the order to stop it after 30 seconds.
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 um 00:53 Uhr Von: "Michael Collins" <msc@freeswitch.org> An: "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> Betreff: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds
Did you reloadxml and then reload mod_voicemail?
-MC
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Pascal Taube <Pascal.Taube@gmx.de> wrote:
I changed <param name="max-record-len" value="300"/> at voicemail.conf.xml . It was set to 300 but it still ends the records after 30 seconds. Are there any other files i need to change? It just plays the file after the record of a message again. I didnt set vm-disk-quota.
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
-- Michael S Collins Twitter: @mercutioviz http://www.FreeSWITCH.org http://www.ClueCon.com http://www.OSTAG.org
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
Could you please give details of your FreeSWITCH and handset network setting up? I smells something NAT related here. Thanks, Chris On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Nick Vines <jnvines@gmail.com> wrote:
Can you send out the debug logs so we can take a look? I assume regular calls aren't getting hung up at 30 seconds as well, right?
From the Freeswitch command line type "console log level debug" then make the same call. The post them here: http://pastebin.freeswitch.org/
Nick
On Apr 18, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Pascal Taube <Pascal.Taube@gmx.de> wrote:
I changed it. but the problem is still there ...
Small review:
-The voicemail stops recording after 30 seconds. - the max record length ( <param name="max-record-len" value="300"/> ) was already set to 300 -i highered it to 500, but nothing changed - i increased the silence value, but nothing changed. - everytime i reloaded the xml and the mod - at the log i only see that its playing the new file- no error or sth.
*Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 um 17:42 Uhr *Von:* "Robert Hadley" <robert.hadley@teotech.com> *An:* "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> *Betreff:* Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds
Try increasing this value as FS hangs up voicemail call when it detects silence.
http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Mod_voicemail#record-silence-hits
Robert
*From:* Pascal Taube [mailto:Pascal.Taube@gmx.de] *Sent:* Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:18 AM *To:* FreeSWITCH Users Help *Subject:* Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds
Yes, and before i edited it, it was set to 300, so i dont understand from where it gets the order to stop it after 30 seconds.
*Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 um 00:53 Uhr *Von:* "Michael Collins" <msc@freeswitch.org> *An:* "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> *Betreff:* Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds
Did you reloadxml and then reload mod_voicemail?
-MC
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Pascal Taube <Pascal.Taube@gmx.de> wrote:
I changed <param name="max-record-len" value="300"/> at voicemail.conf.xml . It was set to 300 but it still ends the records after 30 seconds. Are there any other files i need to change? It just plays the file after the record of a message again. I didnt set vm-disk-quota.
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
-- Michael S Collins Twitter: @mercutioviz http://www.FreeSWITCH.org <http://www.freeswitch.org/> http://www.ClueCon.com <http://www.cluecon.com/> http://www.OSTAG.org <http://www.ostag.org/>
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
I had this exact issue because I was not “answer”ing the call before sending to voice mail. Hope that helps, Sean From: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Taube Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 4:31 PM To: FreeSWITCH Users Help Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds I changed it. but the problem is still there ... Small review: -The voicemail stops recording after 30 seconds. - the max record length ( <param name="max-record-len" value="300"/> ) was already set to 300 -i highered it to 500, but nothing changed - i increased the silence value, but nothing changed. - everytime i reloaded the xml and the mod - at the log i only see that its playing the new file- no error or sth. Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 um 17:42 Uhr Von: "Robert Hadley" <robert.hadley@teotech.com> An: "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> Betreff: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds Try increasing this value as FS hangs up voicemail call when it detects silence. http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Mod_voicemail#record-silence-hits Robert From: Pascal Taube [mailto:Pascal.Taube@gmx.de] Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:18 AM To: FreeSWITCH Users Help Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds Yes, and before i edited it, it was set to 300, so i dont understand from where it gets the order to stop it after 30 seconds. Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 um 00:53 Uhr Von: "Michael Collins" <msc@freeswitch.org> An: "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> Betreff: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds Did you reloadxml and then reload mod_voicemail? -MC On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Pascal Taube <Pascal.Taube@gmx.de> wrote: I changed <param name="max-record-len" value="300"/> at voicemail.conf.xml . It was set to 300 but it still ends the records after 30 seconds. Are there any other files i need to change? It just plays the file after the record of a message again. I didnt set vm-disk-quota. _________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org -- Michael S Collins Twitter: @mercutioviz http://www.FreeSWITCH.org http://www.ClueCon.com http://www.OSTAG.org
Yes, if a call is not answered before sending to voicemail then it ends after 32 seconds due to B Timer, i guess. Suggestion: Voicemail service should answer the call internally. Thank you. On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Sean Devoy <sdevoy@bizfocused.com> wrote:
I had this exact issue because I was not “answer”ing the call before sending to voice mail.****
** **
Hope that helps,****
Sean****
** **
*From:* freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] *On Behalf Of *Pascal Taube *Sent:* Thursday, April 18, 2013 4:31 PM
*To:* FreeSWITCH Users Help *Subject:* Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds** **
** **
I changed it. but the problem is still there ...
Small review:
-The voicemail stops recording after 30 seconds. - the max record length ( <param name="max-record-len" value="300"/> ) was already set to 300 -i highered it to 500, but nothing changed - i increased the silence value, but nothing changed. - everytime i reloaded the xml and the mod - at the log i only see that its playing the new file- no error or sth.*** *
*Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 um 17:42 Uhr *Von:* "Robert Hadley" <robert.hadley@teotech.com> *An:* "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> *Betreff:* Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds * ***
****
Try increasing this value as FS hangs up voicemail call when it detects silence.****
http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Mod_voicemail#record-silence-hits****
****
Robert****
****
*From:* Pascal Taube [mailto:Pascal.Taube@gmx.de <Pascal.Taube@gmx.de>] *Sent:* Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:18 AM *To:* FreeSWITCH Users Help *Subject:* Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds** **
****
Yes, and before i edited it, it was set to 300, so i dont understand from where it gets the order to stop it after 30 seconds.****
*Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 um 00:53 Uhr *Von:* "Michael Collins" <msc@freeswitch.org> *An:* "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> *Betreff:* Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds * ***
Did you reloadxml and then reload mod_voicemail?****
-MC****
****
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Pascal Taube <Pascal.Taube@gmx.de> wrote: ****
I changed <param name="max-record-len" value="300"/> at voicemail.conf.xml . It was set to 300 but it still ends the records after 30 seconds. Are there any other files i need to change? It just plays the file after the record of a message again. I didnt set vm-disk-quota.****
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org****
-- Michael S Collins Twitter: @mercutioviz http://www.FreeSWITCH.org http://www.ClueCon.com http://www.OSTAG.org****
****
** **
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
-- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Muhammad Shahzad ----------------------------------- CISCO Rich Media Communication Specialist (CRMCS) CISCO Certified Network Associate (CCNA) Cell: +49 176 99 83 10 85 MSN: shari_786pk@hotmail.com Email: shaheryarkh@googlemail.com
Did you ever do a full debug log with a siptrace and post it on pastebin.freeswitch.org? -MC On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 5:59 PM, Pascal Taube <Pascal.Taube@gmx.de> wrote:
mhh i added the answer...
the call is running through it like this:
-Inbound call-time condition-ivr menue-queue-then after 5 min, the call is going to the voicemail.
I added the answer at the time condition. Is this right? or should i write in sth. else?
coz it still ends after the 32 seconds...
*Gesendet:* Freitag, 19. April 2013 um 08:08 Uhr *Von:* "Muhammad Shahzad" <shaheryarkh@gmail.com> *An:* "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> *Betreff:* Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds Yes, if a call is not answered before sending to voicemail then it ends after 32 seconds due to B Timer, i guess.
Suggestion: Voicemail service should answer the call internally.
Thank you.
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Sean Devoy <sdevoy@bizfocused.com>wrote:
I had this exact issue because I was not “answer”ing the call before sending to voice mail.****
** **
Hope that helps,****
Sean****
** **
*From:* freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] *On Behalf Of *Pascal Taube *Sent:* Thursday, April 18, 2013 4:31 PM
*To:* FreeSWITCH Users Help *Subject:* Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds* ***
** **
I changed it. but the problem is still there ...
Small review:
-The voicemail stops recording after 30 seconds. - the max record length ( <param name="max-record-len" value="300"/> ) was already set to 300 -i highered it to 500, but nothing changed - i increased the silence value, but nothing changed. - everytime i reloaded the xml and the mod - at the log i only see that its playing the new file- no error or sth.** **
*Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 um 17:42 Uhr *Von:* "Robert Hadley" <robert.hadley@teotech.com> *An:* "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> *Betreff:* Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds ****
****
Try increasing this value as FS hangs up voicemail call when it detects silence.****
http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Mod_voicemail#record-silence-hits****
****
Robert****
****
*From:* Pascal Taube [mailto:Pascal.Taube@gmx.de<http://Pascal.Taube@gmx.de>]
*Sent:* Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:18 AM *To:* FreeSWITCH Users Help *Subject:* Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds* ***
****
Yes, and before i edited it, it was set to 300, so i dont understand from where it gets the order to stop it after 30 seconds.****
*Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 um 00:53 Uhr *Von:* "Michael Collins" <msc@freeswitch.org> *An:* "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> *Betreff:* Re: [Freeswitch-users] Voicemail ends record after 30 seconds ****
Did you reloadxml and then reload mod_voicemail?****
-MC****
****
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Pascal Taube <Pascal.Taube@gmx.de> wrote:****
I changed <param name="max-record-len" value="300"/> at voicemail.conf.xml . It was set to 300 but it still ends the records after 30 seconds. Are there any other files i need to change? It just plays the file after the record of a message again. I didnt set vm-disk-quota.****
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org****
-- Michael S Collins Twitter: @mercutioviz http://www.FreeSWITCH.org http://www.ClueCon.com http://www.OSTAG.org****
****
** **
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
-- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Muhammad Shahzad ----------------------------------- CISCO Rich Media Communication Specialist (CRMCS) CISCO Certified Network Associate (CCNA) Cell: +49 176 99 83 10 85 MSN: shari_786pk@hotmail.com Email: shaheryarkh@googlemail.com
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
-- Michael S Collins Twitter: @mercutioviz http://www.FreeSWITCH.org http://www.ClueCon.com http://www.OSTAG.org
participants (7)
-
Chris Chen
-
Michael Collins
-
Muhammad Shahzad
-
Nick Vines
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Pascal Taube
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Robert Hadley
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Sean Devoy