Hi, just a quick note - For a customer of us i was looking throught the commit messages of FreeSwitch because we suspected a bug in freeswitch. I immediatly stumbled upon commit messages like "oops", "doh" or "bump". Basically most of the commit logs were useless. One could track messages like "FS-5731 --resolve" by looking at the Jira but that would be very time consuming to look up every single bug. Finally i went for grepping through commits touching certain files and using "git blame" to find commits. This message is just for highlighting that commit messages are important and IMHO should contain more informations than a "Bug ID" which may be transitional - one day FreeSwitch might use Jira+1 and all bugs are gone and those references will be just as useless as a random number. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f@zz.de
Maybe if you didn't phrase it like a complaint it would be more meaningful but it reads as though you are mad that you had to do work to debug your issue in our software for your paying customer. I find the message offensive and had to resist less polite responses that came to mind. We use fisheye and jira together for tying the bugs to the commits. I actually have some scripts for dumping the text of jira summaries and merging them inline to the git log by expanding the jira id to the text. 'bump' is always used when the only change is to alter the version in configure.in doh or oops are mostly used in places where you can see the intent in the patch such as a typo etc. (there are only like 200 of each over 10 years) On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 6:41 AM, Florian Lohoff <f@zz.de> wrote:
Hi,
just a quick note - For a customer of us i was looking throught the commit messages of FreeSwitch because we suspected a bug in freeswitch.
I immediatly stumbled upon commit messages like "oops", "doh" or "bump".
Basically most of the commit logs were useless.
One could track messages like "FS-5731 --resolve" by looking at the Jira but that would be very time consuming to look up every single bug.
Finally i went for grepping through commits touching certain files and using "git blame" to find commits.
This message is just for highlighting that commit messages are important and IMHO should contain more informations than a "Bug ID" which may be transitional - one day FreeSwitch might use Jira+1 and all bugs are gone and those references will be just as useless as a random number.
Flo -- Florian Lohoff f@zz.de
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Hola, On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 04:13:52PM -0500, Anthony Minessale wrote:
Maybe if you didn't phrase it like a complaint it would be more meaningful but it reads as though you are mad that you had to do work to debug your issue in our software for your paying customer. I find the message offensive and had to resist less polite responses that came to mind.
Commit messages containing bug ids are nice to track which commit closes a bug - but are not helpful in finding changed behaviour. And looking at every individual diff or every individual ticket is impossible without deep understanding of the full inner workings. So it might be possible for you - its impossible for the rest of us. Thats the point i am trying to make - For ME the changelog entrys are useless and i made a point why. I dont care if you as the developers change - discuss - or think about it. We are not using freeswitch - we are just technicians trying to solve problems around us. The development style of freeswitch makes it hard to follow changes and debug behaviour. In our internal git trees we have a bug id/ticket number + short explanation in the shortlog and sometimes full email conversations in commit messages for reference purposes. So when we change ticket systems we dont devaluate our commit logs. Flo PS: It wasnt a paying customer - just a helpless one with error logs contain 500 responses to SIP re REGISTERs of his CPEs we as an ISP connect to the network - so before ranting its not our business i was trying to answer with helpful content. -- Florian Lohoff f@zz.de
Not much better of a response. On Sep 15, 2013 12:17 PM, "Florian Lohoff" <f@zz.de> wrote:
Hola,
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 04:13:52PM -0500, Anthony Minessale wrote:
Maybe if you didn't phrase it like a complaint it would be more meaningful but it reads as though you are mad that you had to do work to debug your issue in our software for your paying customer. I find the message offensive and had to resist less polite responses that came to mind.
Commit messages containing bug ids are nice to track which commit closes a bug - but are not helpful in finding changed behaviour.
And looking at every individual diff or every individual ticket is impossible without deep understanding of the full inner workings. So it might be possible for you - its impossible for the rest of us. Thats the point i am trying to make - For ME the changelog entrys are useless and i made a point why.
I dont care if you as the developers change - discuss - or think about it. We are not using freeswitch - we are just technicians trying to solve problems around us.
The development style of freeswitch makes it hard to follow changes and debug behaviour.
In our internal git trees we have a bug id/ticket number + short explanation in the shortlog and sometimes full email conversations in commit messages for reference purposes. So when we change ticket systems we dont devaluate our commit logs.
Flo PS: It wasnt a paying customer - just a helpless one with error logs contain 500 responses to SIP re REGISTERs of his CPEs we as an ISP connect to the network - so before ranting its not our business i was trying to answer with helpful content. -- Florian Lohoff f@zz.de
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Florian, Speaking as a long time FreeSWITCH community member and a contributor to multiple other projects over the years as well, you have to remember three things: 1. Each project has its own mode of operations (modus operandi). This includes how commits are commented to the revision control system. 2. No, they are not about to change how they do things for you. 3. No, they might not even entertain hearing your requests/suggestions/complaints. We are glad that you find FreeSWITCH to be a very useful and viable product, and hope you continue to find it useful. You are more than welcome to join us on our weekly developer's conference calls (Wednesdays at 12:00 GMT-6 / US Central). You can also join us up on irc.freenode.net on channel #freeswitch . Perhaps these would be more effective for you to maintain an ongoing connection to the project and more easily track changes in the code. Yossi Neiman On 09/15/2013 11:45 AM, Florian Lohoff wrote:
Hola,
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 04:13:52PM -0500, Anthony Minessale wrote:
Maybe if you didn't phrase it like a complaint it would be more meaningful but it reads as though you are mad that you had to do work to debug your issue in our software for your paying customer. I find the message offensive and had to resist less polite responses that came to mind. Commit messages containing bug ids are nice to track which commit closes a bug - but are not helpful in finding changed behaviour.
And looking at every individual diff or every individual ticket is impossible without deep understanding of the full inner workings. So it might be possible for you - its impossible for the rest of us. Thats the point i am trying to make - For ME the changelog entrys are useless and i made a point why.
I dont care if you as the developers change - discuss - or think about it. We are not using freeswitch - we are just technicians trying to solve problems around us.
The development style of freeswitch makes it hard to follow changes and debug behaviour.
In our internal git trees we have a bug id/ticket number + short explanation in the shortlog and sometimes full email conversations in commit messages for reference purposes. So when we change ticket systems we dont devaluate our commit logs.
Flo PS: It wasnt a paying customer - just a helpless one with error logs contain 500 responses to SIP re REGISTERs of his CPEs we as an ISP connect to the network - so before ranting its not our business i was trying to answer with helpful content.
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
Florian, The FS core devs are always open to feedback/ideas, especially those which would help others to get involved and contribute more. Several discussions have come up on ways we can improve the workflow to make community contributions easier, but these things happen slowly due to the lack of time/resources. However if you expect to be taken seriously, then a hit-and-run post is probably not the best way to approach things. Here is my advice - contribute a few hours of your own time putting together a plan on how you think the development process could be improved, with examples and solid reasoning. Show us how you think things should be done, what benefit it would have to the core devs and the community, and how it could be realistically implemented. Give us examples of how specific situations could have been handled better, and what benefits would have been gained. If you are genuinely sincere in wanting to help solve problems around you, giving something to the community will speak a lot louder than a 5 minute email. Hope this helps Cal On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 5:45 PM, Florian Lohoff <f@zz.de> wrote:
Hola,
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 04:13:52PM -0500, Anthony Minessale wrote:
Maybe if you didn't phrase it like a complaint it would be more meaningful but it reads as though you are mad that you had to do work to debug your issue in our software for your paying customer. I find the message offensive and had to resist less polite responses that came to mind.
Commit messages containing bug ids are nice to track which commit closes a bug - but are not helpful in finding changed behaviour.
And looking at every individual diff or every individual ticket is impossible without deep understanding of the full inner workings. So it might be possible for you - its impossible for the rest of us. Thats the point i am trying to make - For ME the changelog entrys are useless and i made a point why.
I dont care if you as the developers change - discuss - or think about it. We are not using freeswitch - we are just technicians trying to solve problems around us.
The development style of freeswitch makes it hard to follow changes and debug behaviour.
In our internal git trees we have a bug id/ticket number + short explanation in the shortlog and sometimes full email conversations in commit messages for reference purposes. So when we change ticket systems we dont devaluate our commit logs.
Flo PS: It wasnt a paying customer - just a helpless one with error logs contain 500 responses to SIP re REGISTERs of his CPEs we as an ISP connect to the network - so before ranting its not our business i was trying to answer with helpful content. -- Florian Lohoff f@zz.de
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I wonder if something like this would address much of his concern: ------------------- Addition to post commit hook: generate a branch-specific text file/web page/whatever sequentially listing each commit and message If the commit references a jira issue, include the 'description' field. Interspersed in that file would be section headers/highlights for any revision that directly corresponded to a full release as tagged by 'git tag'. ------------------- It's not going to help for a plain 'git log' - that's a fundamental limitation of git unless you make it extra work for devs on every commit - but would at least provide a readily accessible "low level changelog" that would show all of the changes along with more detail of the change than just the jira issue number. At the same time, we don't do a release notes field in Jira - if that were enabled, and if if any release notes were provided in Jira issues - could highlight those in the same place as the expanded issue description. -- Nathan On 09/15/2013 03:46 PM, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd] wrote:
Florian,
The FS core devs are always open to feedback/ideas, especially those which would help others to get involved and contribute more.
Several discussions have come up on ways we can improve the workflow to make community contributions easier, but these things happen slowly due to the lack of time/resources.
However if you expect to be taken seriously, then a hit-and-run post is probably not the best way to approach things.
Here is my advice - contribute a few hours of your own time putting together a plan on how you think the development process could be improved, with examples and solid reasoning. Show us how you think things should be done, what benefit it would have to the core devs and the community, and how it could be realistically implemented. Give us examples of how specific situations could have been handled better, and what benefits would have been gained.
If you are genuinely sincere in wanting to help solve problems around you, giving something to the community will speak a lot louder than a 5 minute email.
Hope this helps
Cal
On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 5:45 PM, Florian Lohoff <f@zz.de <mailto:f@zz.de>> wrote:
Hola,
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 04:13:52PM -0500, Anthony Minessale wrote: > Maybe if you didn't phrase it like a complaint it would be more meaningful > but it reads as though you are mad that you had to do work to debug your > issue in our software for your paying customer. I find the message > offensive and had to resist less polite responses that came to mind.
Commit messages containing bug ids are nice to track which commit closes a bug - but are not helpful in finding changed behaviour.
And looking at every individual diff or every individual ticket is impossible without deep understanding of the full inner workings. So it might be possible for you - its impossible for the rest of us. Thats the point i am trying to make - For ME the changelog entrys are useless and i made a point why.
I dont care if you as the developers change - discuss - or think about it. We are not using freeswitch - we are just technicians trying to solve problems around us.
The development style of freeswitch makes it hard to follow changes and debug behaviour.
In our internal git trees we have a bug id/ticket number + short explanation in the shortlog and sometimes full email conversations in commit messages for reference purposes. So when we change ticket systems we dont devaluate our commit logs.
Flo PS: It wasnt a paying customer - just a helpless one with error logs contain 500 responses to SIP re REGISTERs of his CPEs we as an ISP connect to the network - so before ranting its not our business i was trying to answer with helpful content. -- Florian Lohoff f@zz.de <mailto:f@zz.de>
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_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org <mailto:consulting@freeswitch.org> http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
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Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
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-- ------------------------------------------------------------ Nathan Neulinger nneul@mst.edu Missouri S&T Information Technology (573) 612-1412 System Administrator - Architect
participants (5)
-
Anthony Minessale
-
Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]
-
Florian Lohoff
-
I put the Who? in Mishehu
-
Nathan Neulinger