Is FAXing reliable on FreeSwitch w/ T.38
I have had some bad experiences trying to get reliable FAX support over VOIP (FS). However, I have not used T.38 capable ATAs. For the purposes of my questions please assume I am faxing FROM a fax machine over IP into the FS where I will "capture" it using <action application="rxfax" data="//my_directory//rxfax.tiff"/> Does a T.38 capable ATA improve the success rate of sending a fax from the ATA just into FreeSwitch? I have always thought T.38 was something you put on your Gateway Lines and I think I have forgotten my ATAs connections. Also, what success rate have you had with end-to-end delivery of FAXes using T.38? This accountant has heard FAXing is not reliable over VOIP. So far, I think I agree with him. Does T.38 really fix the problem? Thanks, Sean
yes, it improves the success.. An ATA IS a gateway. As far as success rates, depends on the quality of the connection. On May 1, 2014, at 12:39 PM, Sean Devoy <sdevoy@bizfocused.com> wrote:
<image001.gif> I have had some bad experiences trying to get reliable FAX support over VOIP (FS). However, I have not used T.38 capable ATAs.
For the purposes of my questions please assume I am faxing FROM a fax machine over IP into the FS where I will “capture” it using <action application="rxfax" data="//my_directory//rxfax.tiff"/>
Does a T.38 capable ATA improve the success rate of sending a fax from the ATA just into FreeSwitch?
I have always thought T.38 was something you put on your Gateway Lines and I think I have forgotten my ATAs connections.
Also, what success rate have you had with end-to-end delivery of FAXes using T.38? This accountant has heard FAXing is not reliable over VOIP. So far, I think I agree with him. Does T.38 really fix the problem?
I'm using a Grandstream HT502, connected via our LAN to FreeSWITCH, and then out via Flowroute. It works sometimes. I'm not that concerned, because the high failure rate helps convince my users to use a more modern solution, like the nice Dell MFP that can scan to PDF. You would think that someone would make a VoIP FAX machine that plugs directly into a LAN, but I haven't seen anything I'd be willing to buy. Short summary: Even with a T.38 gateway, VoIP FAX is marginal. -- Steve
Thank you Steve. That is exactly how I feel. Unfortunately some financial and legal requirements will allow faxes, but not scanned & emailed documents. At least that is what my client claims. My planned solution is to take their scans in on FS using T.38 on a SPA2012, run application="rxfax" to a tiff. Then use an "email-to-fax" service to send it. THEY could do "email-to-fax", but that is beyond the capabilities of this "assistant." -----Original Message----- From: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] On Behalf Of Steven Schoch Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 4:35 PM To: FreeSWITCH Users Help Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Is FAXing reliable on FreeSwitch w/ T.38 I'm using a Grandstream HT502, connected via our LAN to FreeSWITCH, and then out via Flowroute. It works sometimes. I'm not that concerned, because the high failure rate helps convince my users to use a more modern solution, like the nice Dell MFP that can scan to PDF. You would think that someone would make a VoIP FAX machine that plugs directly into a LAN, but I haven't seen anything I'd be willing to buy. Short summary: Even with a T.38 gateway, VoIP FAX is marginal. -- Steve _________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
I've tried for a pretty long time to get faxing to work over SIP and I haven't had the best success either. But.. The Commtrex SmartATA seems to work better then most other ATAs I've used. Also, the Audiocodes HTTPS fax works well but your tied to a vender that can support them like faxsipit, faxback, etc. I also have a FS server running a couple of LUA/Sqlite scripts as a fax 2 email system and an Asterisk system with a a php web form for users to use when sending faxes (I'm going to convert that over to FS when I get more time to work on my LUA script). With the server I get about 80-85% success rate but that includes occasional voice callers as well and it's a bit (in a way) inaccurate because often a fax caller will try 2-3 times if there's a failure. Sometimes a 2nd attempt works and other times it's just 2-3 failures. Anyhow, 85% isn't that great but it's not horrible, I guess.. Also, I'm using flowroute which by the way has outstanding support and they've helped me out A LOT with fax issues. I really want to find some ways to tweak or whatever the system to get in the 90-95% range. I wish I knew enough to debug the various spandsp errors to know if there's something on my side I can change or adjust to improve the success rates. ------ Original Message ------ From: "Sean Devoy" <sdevoy@bizfocused.com> To: "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> Sent: 5/1/2014 7:51:59 PM Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Is FAXing reliable on FreeSwitch w/ T.38
Thank you Steve. That is exactly how I feel. Unfortunately some financial and legal requirements will allow faxes, but not scanned & emailed documents. At least that is what my client claims.
My planned solution is to take their scans in on FS using T.38 on a SPA2012, run application="rxfax" to a tiff. Then use an "email-to-fax" service to send it. THEY could do "email-to-fax", but that is beyond the capabilities of this "assistant."
-----Original Message----- From: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] On Behalf Of Steven Schoch Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 4:35 PM To: FreeSWITCH Users Help Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Is FAXing reliable on FreeSwitch w/ T.38
I'm using a Grandstream HT502, connected via our LAN to FreeSWITCH, and then out via Flowroute. It works sometimes. I'm not that concerned, because the high failure rate helps convince my users to use a more modern solution, like the nice Dell MFP that can scan to PDF.
You would think that someone would make a VoIP FAX machine that plugs directly into a LAN, but I haven't seen anything I'd be willing to buy.
Short summary: Even with a T.38 gateway, VoIP FAX is marginal.
-- Steve
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
On 05/02/2014 10:32 AM, bruce@sqls.net wrote:
I've tried for a pretty long time to get faxing to work over SIP and I haven't had the best success either.
But.. The Commtrex SmartATA seems to work better then most other ATAs I've used. Also, the Audiocodes HTTPS fax works well but your tied to a vender that can support them like faxsipit, faxback, etc. I also have a FS server running a couple of LUA/Sqlite scripts as a fax 2 email system and an Asterisk system with a a php web form for users to use when sending faxes (I'm going to convert that over to FS when I get more time to work on my LUA script). With the server I get about 80-85% success rate but that includes occasional voice callers as well and it's a bit (in a way) inaccurate because often a fax caller will try 2-3 times if there's a failure. Sometimes a 2nd attempt works and other times it's just 2-3 failures. Anyhow, 85% isn't that great but it's not horrible, I guess..
Also, I'm using flowroute which by the way has outstanding support and they've helped me out A LOT with fax issues.
I really want to find some ways to tweak or whatever the system to get in the 90-95% range. I wish I knew enough to debug the various spandsp errors to know if there's something on my side I can change or adjust to improve the success rates. 85% success rate on the first try is appalling. You should be getting well below 1% failures on any half decent setup.
Regards, Steve
------ Original Message ------ From: "Steve Underwood" <steveu@coppice.org> To: "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> Sent: 5/1/2014 9:46:44 PM Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Is FAXing reliable on FreeSwitch w/ T.38
85% success rate on the first try is appalling. You should be getting well below 1% failures on any half decent setup.
Regards, Steve
Well, Steve. I would absolutely LOVE to learn what I'm doing wrong so I could get higher success rates. I'd buy beer, amazon gifts, send cash, and give praise if I could get some improvement! For what it's worth, I'm running FreeSWITCH 1.2.23 on CentOS 6.5 on a old (maybe this is the issue? but I've read that even a modest system should be fine) Dell with Intel Pentium(R) D 2.8G cpu and 4GB of ram connected over a fiber internet connection to Flowroute. I've also tried Babytel since they're supposedly good for faxing but there doesn't seem to be much of a difference. I've tried a range of different settings for spandsp but generally my current defaults is to just enable t38, request t38, enable ecm, and enable v17. My LUA script allows me to adjust the settings per CID/DID and for some I've dropped v17. I'm also logging details of faxes and keeping pcap records but I just don't know enough about reading the files in wireshark to understand where the issue is. Also, the -vast- majority of my faxes are inbound, if that matters.
------ Original Message ------ From: bruce@sqls.net To: "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> Sent: 5/1/2014 10:01:07 PM Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Is FAXing reliable on FreeSwitch w/ T.38
------ Original Message ------ From: "Steve Underwood" <steveu@coppice.org> To: "FreeSWITCH Users Help" <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> Sent: 5/1/2014 9:46:44 PM Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Is FAXing reliable on FreeSwitch w/ T.38
85% success rate on the first try is appalling. You should be getting well below 1% failures on any half decent setup.
Regards, Steve
Well, Steve. I would absolutely LOVE to learn what I'm doing wrong so I could get higher success rates. I'd buy beer, amazon gifts, send cash, and give praise if I could get some improvement!
For what it's worth, I'm running FreeSWITCH 1.2.23 on CentOS 6.5 on a old (maybe this is the issue? but I've read that even a modest system should be fine) Dell with Intel Pentium(R) D 2.8G cpu and 4GB of ram connected over a fiber internet connection to Flowroute. I've also tried Babytel since they're supposedly good for faxing but there doesn't seem to be much of a difference.
I've tried a range of different settings for spandsp but generally my current defaults is to just enable t38, request t38, enable ecm, and enable v17. My LUA script allows me to adjust the settings per CID/DID and for some I've dropped v17.
I'm also logging details of faxes and keeping pcap records but I just don't know enough about reading the files in wireshark to understand where the issue is.
Also, the -vast- majority of my faxes are inbound, if that matters.
Nothing? No suggestion or questions? What about my setup is less then half decent? I am seriously interested in knowing. Be harsh, tell me it's all wrong if that's the case. Maybe give me an example of what you consider a half decent setup to be?
Most people using FAX for legal reasons will not accept FAX to email. It needs to be real time. This is why T.38 usage is common, and T.37 isn't. (Implementation wise its the other way around. Many MFCs support a rough approximation to T.37, but don't support T.38). Regards, Steve On 05/02/2014 08:51 AM, Sean Devoy wrote:
Thank you Steve. That is exactly how I feel. Unfortunately some financial and legal requirements will allow faxes, but not scanned & emailed documents. At least that is what my client claims.
My planned solution is to take their scans in on FS using T.38 on a SPA2012, run application="rxfax" to a tiff. Then use an "email-to-fax" service to send it. THEY could do "email-to-fax", but that is beyond the capabilities of this "assistant."
-----Original Message----- From: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org [mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] On Behalf Of Steven Schoch Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 4:35 PM To: FreeSWITCH Users Help Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Is FAXing reliable on FreeSwitch w/ T.38
I'm using a Grandstream HT502, connected via our LAN to FreeSWITCH, and then out via Flowroute. It works sometimes. I'm not that concerned, because the high failure rate helps convince my users to use a more modern solution, like the nice Dell MFP that can scan to PDF.
You would think that someone would make a VoIP FAX machine that plugs directly into a LAN, but I haven't seen anything I'd be willing to buy.
Short summary: Even with a T.38 gateway, VoIP FAX is marginal.
-- Steve
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
_________________________________________________________________________ Professional FreeSWITCH Consulting Services: consulting@freeswitch.org http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com
FreeSWITCH-powered IP PBX: The CudaTel Communication Server http://www.cudatel.com
Official FreeSWITCH Sites http://www.freeswitch.org http://wiki.freeswitch.org http://www.cluecon.com
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org
On 05/02/2014 04:34 AM, Steven Schoch wrote:
I'm using a Grandstream HT502, connected via our LAN to FreeSWITCH, and then out via Flowroute. It works sometimes. I'm not that concerned, because the high failure rate helps convince my users to use a more modern solution, like the nice Dell MFP that can scan to PDF.
You would think that someone would make a VoIP FAX machine that plugs directly into a LAN, but I haven't seen anything I'd be willing to buy.
Short summary: Even with a T.38 gateway, VoIP FAX is marginal.
I assume you do realise that if FAX won't work reliably your voice calls are also not that great? Steve
On 05/02/2014 04:34 AM, Steven Schoch wrote:
I'm using a Grandstream HT502, connected via our LAN to FreeSWITCH, and then out via Flowroute. It works sometimes. I'm not that concerned, because the high failure rate helps convince my users to use a more modern solution, like the nice Dell MFP that can scan to PDF.
You would think that someone would make a VoIP FAX machine that plugs directly into a LAN, but I haven't seen anything I'd be willing to buy.
Short summary: Even with a T.38 gateway, VoIP FAX is marginal.
Some of the big floor standing MFCs support T.38. They even support T.38 over TCP, where it is reliable even if the network is very poor. That requires an end-to-end T.38 over TCP connection, so its generally only closed user groups which can make use of it. Its very common for MFCs of all sizes to support an approximation to T.37, but its usually rather clumsy to use. A few (very few) smaller T.38 capable FAX machines have been produced. Sagem have a couple of inexpensive ones. They never seemed to catch on. Regards, Steve
participants (5)
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bruce＠sqls.net
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Michael Jerris
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Sean Devoy
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Steve Underwood
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Steven Schoch