Not to mention there is a full archive of the mailing list on nabble http://www.nabble.com/Freeswitch-users-f32209.html

From: Mathieu Rene <mrene_lists@avgs.ca> Reply-To: <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:04:15 -0500 To: <freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org> Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Please end the torment

The wiki explains all that and allows all that, whats wrong with IRC? Come and ask questions if you don't understand, you'll get your answers quicker than complaining about the lack of forum.

Math

On 5-Mar-09, at 5:14 AM, J Mann/Harry wrote:

...

No, I've yet to contribute anything, I barely have my system doing what I want. But I REALLY love Freeswitch and I want to see it BURY Asterisk. (Windows server user here)

I've been struggling with the XML configs, trying to figure out what does what and where! That's fine, I'm used to it. What I'm NOT used to is the total lack of a forum-based community to join and participate in! Where can users SHARE their configs, help each other, learn from each others mistakes? No DEV forum? I'm speechless.

Let's be serious guys, mailing lists went out in the 90s! IRC is "meh" at best! I want stickies, a forum for noobs, converts, a dev forum... So on...

"WELCOME To FreeSWITCH!"

Am I asking too much here? A FORUM?

I can't see how you can spark interest when we're so sorely lacking the most basic and widely used community environments on the net!

HELP SOMEBODY? Install SMF ASAP! http://www.simplemachines.org

BTW: I hate people who voice problems without offering viable solutions in the process... Disgusting! So if someone can offer up a simple hosting account, Control Panel 10, Windows Linux whatever... I'll be more than happy to have SMF setup and receiving user registrations within 24 hours! I've done it dozens of times before. I will then gladly turn over the keys to the kingdom to the "powers that be" and take a backseat, being simply a happy user from that point on!

Please folks, please. I'm dying over here and I'm sure I'm not alone! I'm searching Google and finding nothing!! FORUMS!

Harry (email me here) switchserver@gmail.com (my FS email)

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On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Michael Jerris <mike@jerris.com> wrote:

Much more than an archive, nabble makes a full embeddable forum that is linked to the mailing list.  We will be embedding this in our webpage soon for the best of both worlds, a forum and a mailing list without the additional overhead of having to monitor 2 things.

agree!

The bot even takes people's question and keeps them in list so when someone that knows shows up he can answer it, thats the ~take-a-number option... On 5-Mar-09, at 12:16 PM, Brian West wrote:

I have been trying to push all the social talk into #freeswitch- social to keep #freeswitch on topic.. sometimes after hours in the US it gets a bit off topic. I'm usually alive in the channel till around 11PM+ CST most days. I take questions and answer questions at all hours if I'm awake... I too am guilty of going off topic.

/b

On Mar 5, 2009, at 11:03 AM, Ben Holtsclaw wrote:

...

I agree with Harry. I do not like the mailing list. Those that do like the mailing list always advocate Nabble. For those that advocate that solution, do you even realize that you can't post on Nabble unless you are subscribed to the mailing list? I am also not a fan of IRC. Before I came upon FreeSWITCH, I hadn't used IRC in years! I think I uninstalled my IRC client at the same time I uninstalled my NNTP reader. Most of the time, I actually find it difficult to obtain support in the #freeswitch channel. Once you ask the question, if somebody doesn't happen to be there that knows the answer, then you're screwed. How many times have I asked a question only to wait 30 seconds and then see, "anthm has joined #freeswitch." Crap...do I ask the question again? I have found the conversation in #openzap to be much more focused. Thank goodness I'm using that module! In that channel, I never see conversations about cd burners, somebody's girlfriend in South America, or off color jokes about someone's sexual proclivity. And because I know I'll get flamed for saying that, just look at this:

[23:10] <{tasker}> me, too, but i'm a different animal [23:10] <{tasker}> in NY and in Miami i went nutz [23:10] <diegoviola> lol [23:10] * jefferai is now known as lollerai [23:10] <diegoviola> yeah i love her [23:10] <{tasker}> latinas everywhere [23:11] * lanwifie (n=Sami@99-196-39-200.cust.wildblue.net) has left #freeswitch [23:11] * jjg (n=jjg@76.21.4.40) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [23:11] <hmmhesays> here its blond blue eyed girls [23:11] * lollerai is now known as lolferai [23:11] <rpm> brazilians... hopefully she's hot. i've seen some pretty dodgy looking chicks from there [23:11] <{tasker}> diego: go back, buy her a ticket and tell her, "yeaaaaaaaaah, it's just for a few days" [23:11] * martyn-dev (n=martyn-d@190.26.4.61) has joined #freeswitch [23:11] <{tasker}> blonde / blue eyes are overrated [23:11] <{tasker}> give me a latina any day [23:11] <hmmhesays> best thing around here though

If I'm going into #freeswitch at 11pm at night, it's probably because I really need some help with some problem I've run into after hours. Can you imagine me injecting a question about a SIP profile into that conversation??

ALL that aside... I'm willing to use a carrier pigeon if that's the way the three primary developers wish to communicate. They have been instrumental in getting my project where it is today. You know the saying... beggars can't be choosers.

Ben Holtsclaw Network Engineer Avery County Schools Ph: 828.733.3567 x2301

_______________________________________________ Freeswitch-users mailing list Freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org

Well you can always shoot an email to the mailing list... or wait for someone that can answer it.. which reminds me we really need people to volunteer to help out on the IRC channel so we have skilled people able to answer questions 24/7, I personally cover 12-16 hours a day most of the time. Even weekends! I was even up at 4am today and answered a few. /b On Mar 5, 2009, at 11:27 AM, Ben Holtsclaw wrote:

The problem with take-a-number is what if I'm not there when someone can answer it?

You guys should setup 1-900-FREESWITCH w/ a $1 / minute charge.. :)

On Mar 5, 2009, at 3:39 PM, Kristian Kielhofner wrote:

A bunch of telephony geeks and a 1900 number - what could go wrong?

Anyways, I too don't understand why people prefer forums.

I follow dozens of mailling lists and a half a dozen e-mail addresses without ever leaving my mail client. My mail client happens to be gmail, btw:

- Much more customization, filtering, etc possible than any "web forum" - "Local" copies of all messages - Search is awesome, ever hear of Google? ;)

Web forums are good when you have to serve ads to people to get paid. Other than that they are certainly not the ideal tool for the job.

Besides (and don't take this as an insult) - have you ever compared the web forums to the mailing lists for projects that offer both? Say what you want to say about mailing lists and IRC but the reality (usually) is the l33tz all hang out here and web forums (almost always) end up with the same groups of n00bz circling around and around trying to figure out how to accomplish even the most basic of tasks.

Obviously that can go both ways but as a rule of thumb the people that are usually in a position to help others typically prefer mailing lists (probably for some of the reasons I cited above). Or maybe they are just old gray hairs too stuck in their ways. I don't know. ;)

I previously thought the same about the insiders always preferring mailing lists but I have a friend who is a core member of the cacti developers and they apparently prefer the forums to the lists, but have both. Food for thought at least. MIke

mszlazak@aol.com <mszlazak@aol.com> wrote:

If as you say "people prefer forums" then that's the nature of the target market and controlling markets can be very difficult. So you go with the market to succeed.

Most free software/open-source people I've encountered prefer mailing lists and don't like being forced to use a Web interface instead (unless it's the Web interface of their preferred Web mail provider, in which case they're not being compelled to use it). For some of us, a Web forum is hard and inconvenient to use, because it substitutes the forum operator's user interface for that of the user's preferred mail client. I have reasons for choosing the mail client that I use, and if I had to work via somebody else's Web interface instead it would probably result in my not participating at all. This list can also be accessed via the Web and over NNTP at gmane.org. For NNTP enthusiasts, the news group is mane.comp.telephony.freeswitch.user - just connect your news reader to news.gmane.org. You can also post from the newsgroup; the first time you do so, an automated e-mail message will arrive in your inbox requesting confirmation, for spam prevention purposes. I don't know whether it is possible to post from the gmane.org Web site. They use Xapian as their search tool, which, in my experience, usually places the most relevant posts near the top of the search results.

Again, if your target market prefers lists, then go with list. If they prefer forums then it's forums. The point is that it's not about what a few like, it's about the mob but the right mob. -----Original Message----- From: David Dan <davidwdan@gmail.com> To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 5:26 pm Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Please end the torment Web forums are like the wild west of the internet.? They offer nothing that a mailing list and good wiki can't handle. Just go take a look at the trixbox forums. The last thing you want it for someone that is looking into freeswitch for the first time, to come across something like this (The Beginning of the End for CE), 1 click off the front page.? I'd really hate to see FS go down this Mob Rule path. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Jason White <jason@jasonjgw.net> wrote: mszlazak@aol.com <mszlazak@aol.com> wrote:

If as you say "people prefer forums" then that's the nature of the target

market and controlling markets can be very difficult. So you go with the

market to succeed.

Most free software/open-source people I've encountered prefer mailing lists and don't like being forced to use a Web interface instead (unless it's the Web interface of their preferred Web mail provider, in which case they're not being compelled to use it). For some of us, a Web forum is hard and inconvenient to use, because it substitutes the forum operator's user interface for that of the user's preferred mail client. I have reasons for choosing the mail client that I use, and if I had to work via somebody else's Web interface instead it would probably result in my not participating at all. This list can also be accessed via the Web and over NNTP at gmane.org. For NNTP enthusiasts, the news group is mane.comp.telephony.freeswitch.user - just connect your news reader to news.gmane.org. You can also post from the newsgroup; the first time you do so, an automated e-mail message will arrive in your inbox requesting confirmation, for spam prevention purposes. I don't know whether it is possible to post from the gmane.org Web site. They use Xapian as their search tool, which, in my experience, usually places the most relevant posts near the top of the search results. _______________________________________________ Freeswitch-users mailing list Freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org _______________________________________________ Freeswitch-users mailing list Freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org

a) List On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:31 AM, Saeed Ahmed <saeedahmad1981@gmail.com>wrote:

We need a poll.

a) List b) Forum

...

(b)

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-- -Rupa

Did anybody notice my email from yesterday that shows how there already is a forum on voip-info that is linked to our homepage and nobody uses it?

We can't take this poll until we have a list of volunteers who would manage any new online resources.

Let's "end the torment of this thread" by giving an official request for the community: All of those who are willing and able to moderate a forum please stand up, go log in to voip-info.org and see what needs to be done to make it a usable forum. If you are willing to commit to managing the forum please email me at msc@freeswitch.org. There will *NOT* be a forum if we don't get at least one motivated community volunteer to take care of it. Thanks, MC

Ok, SO? We should make a forum? See this one? http://www.voip-info.org/boards/index.php?b=6 Yah, that one has been around for many months and nobody maintains it. We do have a link to it on our homepage but nobody reads it so, there is a dilemma here right? IRC is for sure more useful of a resource between 9am and 6pm GMT-6 in the timezone where me and bkw live. Any other times it would be up to other community members like the few who have been stepping up in a major way in the last few weeks, thank you all. I don't know how good of a job we are doing, but we are a small group and we already spend most of every day managing a bug tracker, irc, and this list. If you took a poll 8/10 people hate forums. I don't really know if i like them or not, I have enjoyed finding forums before that discussed something that happened ages ago that relates to a problem I have and being able to skim months into the future reading the end results, but more times than not they go south and contain a bunch of flaming back and forth about midway through. We already need voulenteers to help manage the resources we already have, Website, Mailing list, JIRA. If we introduce more we, run the risk of doing a bad job at maintaining them. Is anyone willing to help? If you can use nabble to post as long as you have an account on the mailing list, can't you just disable mail dilevery and use the nabble exclusively? If not is there another solution? I really need some help in this department to even consider introducing any more community resources. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Brian West <brian@freeswitch.org> wrote:

I have been trying to push all the social talk into #freeswitch-social to keep #freeswitch on topic.. sometimes after hours in the US it gets a bit off topic. I'm usually alive in the channel till around 11PM+ CST most days. I take questions and answer questions at all hours if I'm awake... I too am guilty of going off topic. /b

On Mar 5, 2009, at 11:03 AM, Ben Holtsclaw wrote:

I agree with Harry. I do not like the mailing list. Those that do like the mailing list always advocate Nabble. For those that advocate that solution, do you even realize that you can't post on Nabble unless you *are* subscribed to the mailing list? I am also not a fan of IRC. Before I came upon FreeSWITCH, I hadn't used IRC in years! I think I uninstalled my IRC client at the same time I uninstalled my NNTP reader. Most of the time, I actually find it difficult to obtain support in the #freeswitch channel. Once you ask the question, if somebody doesn't happen to be there that knows the answer, then you're screwed. How many times have I asked a question only to wait 30 seconds and then see, "anthm has joined #freeswitch." Crap...do I ask the question again? I *have* found the conversation in #openzap to be much more focused. Thank goodness I'm using that module! In that channel, I never see conversations about cd burners, somebody's girlfriend in South America, or off color jokes about someone's sexual proclivity. And because I know I'll get flamed for saying that, just look at this:

[23:10] <{tasker}> me, too, but i'm a different animal [23:10] <{tasker}> in NY and in Miami i went nutz [23:10] <diegoviola> lol [23:10] * jefferai is now known as lollerai [23:10] <diegoviola> yeah i love her [23:10] <{tasker}> latinas everywhere [23:11] * lanwifie (n=Sami@99-196-39-200.cust.wildblue.net) has left #freeswitch [23:11] * jjg (n=jjg@76.21.4.40) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ) [23:11] <hmmhesays> here its blond blue eyed girls [23:11] * lollerai is now known as lolferai [23:11] <rpm> brazilians... hopefully she's hot. i've seen some pretty dodgy looking chicks from there [23:11] <{tasker}> diego: go back, buy her a ticket and tell her, "yeaaaaaaaaah, it's just for a few days" [23:11] * martyn-dev (n=martyn-d@190.26.4.61) has joined #freeswitch [23:11] <{tasker}> blonde / blue eyes are overrated [23:11] <{tasker}> give me a latina any day [23:11] <hmmhesays> best thing around here though

If I'm going into #freeswitch at 11pm at night, it's probably because I really need some help with some problem I've run into after hours. Can you imagine me injecting a question about a SIP profile into that conversation??

ALL that aside... I'm willing to use a carrier pigeon if that's the way the three primary developers wish to communicate. They have been instrumental in getting my project where it is today. You know the saying... beggars can't be choosers.

Ben Holtsclaw Network Engineer Avery County Schools Ph: 828.733.3567 x2301

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-- Anthony Minessale II FreeSWITCH http://www.freeswitch.org/ ClueCon http://www.cluecon.com/ AIM: anthm MSN:anthony_minessale@hotmail.com <MSN%3Aanthony_minessale@hotmail.com> GTALK/JABBER/PAYPAL:anthony.minessale@gmail.com<PAYPAL%3Aanthony.minessale@gmail.com> IRC: irc.freenode.net #freeswitch FreeSWITCH Developer Conference sip:888@conference.freeswitch.org <sip%3A888@conference.freeswitch.org> iax:guest@conference.freeswitch.org/888 googletalk:conf+888@conference.freeswitch.org<googletalk%3Aconf%2B888@conference.freeswitch.org> pstn:213-799-1400

Ben;

Can you imagine me injecting a question about a SIP profile into that conversation??

Don't be bashful, just jump right in:

If I'm going into #freeswitch at 11pm at night, it's probably because I really need some help with some problem I've run into after hours. Can you imagine me injecting a question about a SIP profile into that conversation?? [23:11] <{tasker}> blonde / blue eyes are overrated [23:11] <{tasker}> give me a latina any day [23:11] <hmmhesays> best thing around here though

[23:12] <Bashful_Ben> Excuse me, I hate to interrupt, but I have a FreeSwitch question regarding (foo), can anyone help me with that? Point being that you're certainly not going to get any assistance if you neglect to ask for it. I'm not sure I speak for all of us, but we volunteer our time in the IRC channel, and on the Wiki. Since we're not paid to give our advice and/or professional opinions, we're going to "goof off" when there's no one there asking for help. We're also going to goof off when there's people in there that need help, but are too bashful or afraid to ask for it. It's human nature, and it will happen. It even happens in the work place. Should you doubt me, just watch around the water cooler at work. Guaranteed you'll see a couple folks engaged in conversation that is non-work-related. You'd probably have gotten your answer a lot sooner by asking for it in IRC as outlined above, rather that too whine about the conversations of the people that volunteer their time to help you. Summary: If you need help, ask. If you don't ask, then the only outcome of that lack of action is what? I could say more, a lot more, but I think I've made my point. Best Regards, Karl J. Vesterling kjv@ken-ton.com 202-448-3009 x0 On Mar 5, 2009, at 12:03 PM, Ben Holtsclaw wrote:

I agree with Harry. I do not like the mailing list. Those that do like the mailing list always advocate Nabble. For those that advocate that solution, do you even realize that you can't post on Nabble unless you are subscribed to the mailing list? I am also not a fan of IRC. Before I came upon FreeSWITCH, I hadn't used IRC in years! I think I uninstalled my IRC client at the same time I uninstalled my NNTP reader. Most of the time, I actually find it difficult to obtain support in the #freeswitch channel. Once you ask the question, if somebody doesn't happen to be there that knows the answer, then you're screwed. How many times have I asked a question only to wait 30 seconds and then see, "anthm has joined #freeswitch." Crap...do I ask the question again? I have found the conversation in #openzap to be much more focused. Thank goodness I'm using that module! In that channel, I never see conversations about cd burners, somebody's girlfriend in South America, or off color jokes about someone's sexual proclivity. And because I know I'll get flamed for saying that, just look at this:

[23:10] <{tasker}> me, too, but i'm a different animal [23:10] <{tasker}> in NY and in Miami i went nutz [23:10] <diegoviola> lol [23:10] * jefferai is now known as lollerai [23:10] <diegoviola> yeah i love her [23:10] <{tasker}> latinas everywhere [23:11] * lanwifie (n=Sami@99-196-39-200.cust.wildblue.net) has left #freeswitch [23:11] * jjg (n=jjg@76.21.4.40) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [23:11] <hmmhesays> here its blond blue eyed girls [23:11] * lollerai is now known as lolferai [23:11] <rpm> brazilians... hopefully she's hot. i've seen some pretty dodgy looking chicks from there [23:11] <{tasker}> diego: go back, buy her a ticket and tell her, "yeaaaaaaaaah, it's just for a few days" [23:11] * martyn-dev (n=martyn-d@190.26.4.61) has joined #freeswitch [23:11] <{tasker}> blonde / blue eyes are overrated [23:11] <{tasker}> give me a latina any day [23:11] <hmmhesays> best thing around here though

If I'm going into #freeswitch at 11pm at night, it's probably because I really need some help with some problem I've run into after hours. Can you imagine me injecting a question about a SIP profile into that conversation??

ALL that aside... I'm willing to use a carrier pigeon if that's the way the three primary developers wish to communicate. They have been instrumental in getting my project where it is today. You know the saying... beggars can't be choosers.

Ben Holtsclaw Network Engineer Avery County Schools Ph: 828.733.3567 x2301

...

...

...

On 3/5/2009 at 5:14 AM, "J Mann/Harry" <gibbedhead@gmail.com> wrote: No, I've yet to contribute anything, I barely have my system doing what I want. But I REALLY love Freeswitch and I want to see it BURY Asterisk. (Windows server user here)

I've been struggling with the XML configs, trying to figure out what does what and where! That's fine, I'm used to it. What I'm NOT used to is the total lack of a forum-based community to join and participate in! Where can users SHARE their configs, help each other, learn from each others mistakes? No DEV forum? I'm speechless.

Let's be serious guys, mailing lists went out in the 90s! IRC is "meh" at best! I want stickies, a forum for noobs, converts, a dev forum... So on...

"WELCOME To FreeSWITCH!"

Am I asking too much here? A FORUM?

I can't see how you can spark interest when we're so sorely lacking the most basic and widely used community environments on the net!

HELP SOMEBODY? Install SMF ASAP! http://www.simplemachines.org

BTW: I hate people who voice problems without offering viable solutions in the process... Disgusting! So if someone can offer up a simple hosting account, Control Panel 10, Windows Linux whatever... I'll be more than happy to have SMF setup and receiving user registrations within 24 hours! I've done it dozens of times before. I will then gladly turn over the keys to the kingdom to the "powers that be" and take a backseat, being simply a happy user from that point on!

Please folks, please. I'm dying over here and I'm sure I'm not alone! I'm searching Google and finding nothing!! FORUMS!

Harry (email me here) switchserver@gmail.com (my FS email)

_______________________________________________ Freeswitch-users mailing list Freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org _______________________________________________ Freeswitch-users mailing list Freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users http://www.freeswitch.org

Thank you, I appriciate that you get some benifits from our efforts. We only recommend irc because it's an easy-to-access multi user chat where we can put all of the people who need help in the same room in real time so they can help each other and we can help them. I tried not to get annoyed about the 2 cracks in previous posts from others about how old and outdated irc was. Everyone is entitled to their own cup of tea after all. But we don't have to retire protocols just because they are old? We still use SMTP and HTTP and FTP and don't mock them for their age. Conversely, I feel kinda the same way about the "web 2.0" farce where the same tired browser and js nightmares I faced in 1997 are now swept under the rug with a singe addition of a background http-get instead of actually re-inventing the wheel if you are going to bother calling it wheel 2.0 Yes you can do some cool new stuff, but not nearly as much as what you could have done in 10 years of effort towards a better way, too late now ;) But that's only my opinion i don't try to enstill it to anyone. On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Luis F Urrea <lfurrea@gmail.com> wrote:

Same thing happened to me in regards IRC, I had not used it for years before getting into FS, but as a total newbie I can say that IRC is really good to get things going quickly and all those No rocket science questions we have. I have had people helping realtime looking at pastebin's and stuff, which is a really good thing.

When one needs to elaborate on a question maybe mailing list/forum fits better, but what I know in my experience is that eventually you will get the answer thanks to the efforts of the community with the current set of tools.

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-- Anthony Minessale II FreeSWITCH http://www.freeswitch.org/ ClueCon http://www.cluecon.com/ AIM: anthm MSN:anthony_minessale@hotmail.com <MSN%3Aanthony_minessale@hotmail.com> GTALK/JABBER/PAYPAL:anthony.minessale@gmail.com<PAYPAL%3Aanthony.minessale@gmail.com> IRC: irc.freenode.net #freeswitch FreeSWITCH Developer Conference sip:888@conference.freeswitch.org <sip%3A888@conference.freeswitch.org> iax:guest@conference.freeswitch.org/888 googletalk:conf+888@conference.freeswitch.org<googletalk%3Aconf%2B888@conference.freeswitch.org> pstn:213-799-1400