Hi, I&#39;m stuck on something similar myself, I&#39;ve tried filtering based on conference UUID by doing something like &#39;$con-&gt;sendRecv(&quot;filter Unique-ID $confUUID&quot;);&#39; but that doesn&#39;t give me custom events like started/stopped talking events for that conference, it might through pause/unpause because it does through dtmf events for that conference. The other thing you could try would be to have an inbound ESL script for every user and do something like &#39;&#39;$con-&gt;sendRecv(&quot;filter Unique-ID $CallerUUID&quot;);&#39; and that will give you all events for that user, the only drawback is that you&#39;ll have to run the script using a local channel and there will be n scripts for n participants.<div>

<br></div><div>Regards.</div><div><br></div><div>-Usama<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 10:00 PM,  <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:freeswitch-users-request@lists.freeswitch.org" target="_blank">freeswitch-users-request@lists.freeswitch.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send FreeSWITCH-users mailing list submissions to<br>
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than &quot;Re: Contents of FreeSWITCH-users digest...&quot;<br>
<br>Today&#39;s Topics:<br>
<br>
   1. Re: Terminating calls prior to answer using api (Gary Foreman)<br>
   2. Hold/unhold events for a conference participant (Martyn Davies)<br>
   3. Re: Throttle Error (Archana Venugopan)<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Gary Foreman &lt;<a href="mailto:gaz.foreman@gmail.com">gaz.foreman@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>To: <a href="mailto:freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org">freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org</a><br>

Cc: <br>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 16:40:06 +0000<br>Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Terminating calls prior to answer using api<br><div dir="ltr">Thanks for your help. I might be doing something wrong but I had tried using a cause, the command I ran was...<div>

<br></div><div>bgapi uuid_kill 0292147c-7469-11e2-817e-bd1d1e5a02e8 normal_clearing</div><div>
<br></div><div>This seemed to work as the hangup event showed &quot;NORMAL_CLEARING&quot; as the hangup cause but the sip client still reported the error.</div><div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">


On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 3:52 PM,  <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:freeswitch-users-request@lists.freeswitch.org" target="_blank">freeswitch-users-request@lists.freeswitch.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">


Send FreeSWITCH-users mailing list submissions to<br>
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than &quot;Re: Contents of FreeSWITCH-users digest...&quot;<br>
<br>Today&#39;s Topics:<br>
<br>
   1. Re: Trouble autostarting freeswitch on boot (David Matthews)<br>
   2. Re: Running FS with &quot;daemon&quot; group. (Michael Jerris)<br>
   3. Re: High Availability Cluster Module for  reeSWITCH (Eliot Gable)<br>
   4. Terminating calls prior to answer using api (Gary Foreman)<br>
   5. Re: Terminating calls prior to answer using api (Andrew Cassidy)<br>
   6. Throttle Error (Archana Venugopan)<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: David Matthews &lt;<a href="mailto:mail@dmatthews.org" target="_blank">mail@dmatthews.org</a>&gt;<br>To: FreeSWITCH Users Help &lt;<a href="mailto:freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org" target="_blank">freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org</a>&gt;<br>


Cc: <br>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 13:00:33 +0000<br>Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Trouble autostarting freeswitch on boot<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">



I might consider another distribution, but it must be one which will run<br>
on the raspberrypi as that will be where it will be run in the end. I<br>
did try the ArchLinux stuff on both an X86_64 system as well as the<br>
raspberrypi, Debian, I mainly tried on the RaspberryPi using the<br>
raspbian distribution.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
in /etc/rc.local on raspbian<br>
<br>
su pi -c &quot;ulimit -s 240; /usr/local/freeswitch/bin/<u></u>freeswitch -rp -nc&quot;<br>
<br>
-- <br>
David Matthews<br>
<a href="mailto:mail@dmatthews.org" target="_blank">mail@dmatthews.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Michael Jerris &lt;<a href="mailto:mike@jerris.com" target="_blank">mike@jerris.com</a>&gt;<br>To: FreeSWITCH Users Help &lt;<a href="mailto:freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org" target="_blank">freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org</a>&gt;<br>


Cc: <br>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 10:08:30 -0500<br>Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Running FS with &quot;daemon&quot; group.<br><div style="word-wrap:break-word">You can run freeswitch with whatever user/group you like as long as it has the necessary permissions.  The more isolated typically the better, depending on your specific needs.<div>


<br></div><div><br><div><div>On Feb 9, 2013, at 11:29 AM, Mimiko Mimiko &lt;<a href="mailto:vbvbrj@gmail.com" target="_blank">vbvbrj@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">Hello.<br><br>On this page: <a href="http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Freeswitch_init" target="_blank">http://wiki.freeswitch.org/wiki/Freeswitch_init</a> I see that FS is started under &quot;daemon&quot; group. Is it safe to start it that way, and is it safe if other services will be started under the same group?<br>



<br>About &quot;daemon&quot; group debian says that is better that each service is started in its own uid/guid. But that way services cannot share same directory for storing and reading common files. Especially that FS creates files with 750 permission.<br>


</blockquote></div></div></div><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Eliot Gable &lt;<a href="mailto:egable%2Bfreeswitch@gmail.com" target="_blank">egable+freeswitch@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>To: FreeSWITCH Users Help &lt;<a href="mailto:freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org" target="_blank">freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org</a>&gt;<br>


Cc: <br>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 10:09:59 -0500<br>Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] High Availability Cluster Module for reeSWITCH<br>On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Seven Du <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:dujinfang@gmail.com" target="_blank">dujinfang@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">

                <div><br></div><div><div>And, besides the FS HA, how will 3rd party softwares work with FS, if, say, someone connected via ESL and FS1 crashes and the float IP bind to FS2, will the ESL client fail and re-connect or it can magically connect to FS2 without any addintional work?</div>



<div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The ESL client would have to reconnect. We could make a little ESL helper daemon you could run on some host which would do connection management for you, but it&#39;s probably a better idea to just handle it in your own code. It&#39;s not that difficult to notice a failed connection and reconnect.</div>



<div> </div></div>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Gary Foreman &lt;<a href="mailto:gaz.foreman@gmail.com" target="_blank">gaz.foreman@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>To: <a href="mailto:freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org" target="_blank">freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org</a><br>


Cc: <br>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:30:36 +0000<br>Subject: [Freeswitch-users] Terminating calls prior to answer using api<br><div dir="ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m having an issue gracefully terminating calls prior to them being answered.</div>


<div><br></div><div>When I issue the uuid_kill command prior to the call being answered my sip client gives an error &quot;unable to connect&quot; with an error tone.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Is it possible to cancel the client dial without causing an error? Maybe using a sip notify message or something?</div><div><br></div><div>I can&#39;t seem to find a list of valid sip notify messages anywhere.</div>



<div><br></div><div>Thanks</div></div>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Andrew Cassidy &lt;<a href="mailto:andrew@cassidywebservices.co.uk" target="_blank">andrew@cassidywebservices.co.uk</a>&gt;<br>To: FreeSWITCH Users Help &lt;<a href="mailto:freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org" target="_blank">freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org</a>&gt;<br>


Cc: <br>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:43:22 +0000<br>Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Terminating calls prior to answer using api<br>probably need to use the cause parameter to uuid_kill<div><br></div><div>This doesn&#39;t seem to be documented well, though.<br>


<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 11 February 2013 15:30, Gary Foreman <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:gaz.foreman@gmail.com" target="_blank">gaz.foreman@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m having an issue gracefully terminating calls prior to them being answered.</div>



<div><br></div><div>When I issue the uuid_kill command prior to the call being answered my sip client gives an error &quot;unable to connect&quot; with an error tone.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Is it possible to cancel the client dial without causing an error? Maybe using a sip notify message or something?</div><div><br></div><div>I can&#39;t seem to find a list of valid sip notify messages anywhere.</div>




<div><br></div><div>Thanks</div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><b>Andrew Cassidy BSc (Hons) MBCS SSCA</b><div>Managing Director<div><div><img><br></div><div><br><div>
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</div></div></div>
</div>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Archana Venugopan &lt;<a href="mailto:a.venugopan@mundio.com" target="_blank">a.venugopan@mundio.com</a>&gt;<br>To: FreeSWITCH Users Help &lt;<a href="mailto:freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org" target="_blank">freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org</a>&gt;<br>


Cc: <br>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:51:56 +0000<br>Subject: [Freeswitch-users] Throttle Error<br>





<div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p>Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p>I have been getting this error in freeswitch for group calls. Can anyone please let me know what is the issue?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>I tried increasing sessions_per_second in switch.conf.xml but even after that I have been facing this issue. Please help. Thanks<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p>2013-02-11 15:35:12.237145 [CRIT] switch_core_session.c:1813 Throttle Error! 33<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>2013-02-11 15:35:12.237145 [CRIT] mod_sofia.c:4278 Error Creating Session<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>2013-02-11 15:35:12.317103 [CRIT] switch_time.c:869 Over Session Rate of 10!<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p>Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Archana<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Martyn Davies &lt;<a href="mailto:martyn@magiccow.co.uk">martyn@magiccow.co.uk</a>&gt;<br>To: FreeSWITCH Users Help &lt;<a href="mailto:freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org">freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org</a>&gt;<br>

Cc: <br>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 16:56:38 +0000<br>Subject: [Freeswitch-users] Hold/unhold events for a conference participant<br>I&#39;m trying to process CHANNEL_CALLSTATE events (in an ESL socket application) to extract the HELD/ACTIVE messages for conference participants.<div>

<br></div><div>One problem for me is that the name of the conference and the member-id for that call are not available to me in the callstate messages, and therefore it is difficult to associated calls (going HELD and ACTIVE) with the conference.  Is there any way to get the callstate messages to include custom variables? This would fix the problem for me.</div>


<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Martyn</div><div><br></div><div> </div>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Archana Venugopan &lt;<a href="mailto:a.venugopan@mundio.com">a.venugopan@mundio.com</a>&gt;<br>To: FreeSWITCH Users Help &lt;<a href="mailto:freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org">freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org</a>&gt;<br>

Cc: <br>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 17:00:25 +0000<br>Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] Throttle Error<br>







<div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Thanks I got it</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>


<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Archana<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> <a href="mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org" target="_blank">freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org" target="_blank">freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Archana Venugopan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 11 February 2013 16:54<br>
<b>To:</b> FreeSWITCH Users Help<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Freeswitch-users] Throttle Error<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">When I gave fsctl sps it shows still 10. Can you please tell me apart from reload_xml do we have to anyother thing after changing switch.conf.xml?<u></u><u></u></span></p>


<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Archana<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> <a href="mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org" target="_blank">freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org" target="_blank">freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Archana Venugopan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 11 February 2013 16:37<br>
<b>To:</b> FreeSWITCH Users Help<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Freeswitch-users] Throttle Error<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Ya i did re-loaded the xml. And this is what I see in status<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">UP 0 years, 6 days, 9 hours, 3 minutes, 17 seconds, 803 milliseconds, 420 microseconds<u></u><u></u></span></p>


<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">FreeSWITCH is ready<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">62552 session(s) since startup<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">16 session(s) 0/10<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">50 session(s) max<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">min idle cpu 0.00/91.00<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Archana<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> <a href="mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org" target="_blank">freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org" target="_blank">freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ken Rice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 11 February 2013 16:10<br>
<b>To:</b> FreeSWITCH Users Help<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Freeswitch-users] Throttle Error<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Did you restart after increasing sessions_per_second?  Check “status” from the cli...<br>
<br>
You can change it on the fly inside freeswitch with the fsctl sps command<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/11/13 9:51 AM, &quot;Archana Venugopan&quot; &lt;<a href="http://a.venugopan@mundio.com" target="_blank">a.venugopan@mundio.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi,<br>
 <br>
I have been getting this error in freeswitch for group calls. Can anyone please let me know what is the issue?<br>
I tried increasing sessions_per_second in switch.conf.xml but even after that I have been facing this issue. Please help. Thanks<br>
 <br>
2013-02-11 15:35:12.237145 [CRIT] switch_core_session.c:1813 Throttle Error! 33<br>
2013-02-11 15:35:12.237145 [CRIT] mod_sofia.c:4278 Error Creating Session<br>
2013-02-11 15:35:12.317103 [CRIT] switch_time.c:869 Over Session Rate of 10!<br>
 <br>
Regards,<br>
Archana<br>
 </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">_________________________________________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">-- <br>
Ken<br>
<u><span style="color:blue"><a href="http://www.FreeSWITCH.org" target="_blank">http://www.FreeSWITCH.org</a><br>
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</span></u><a href="http://irc.freenode.net" target="_blank">irc.freenode.net</a> #freeswitch</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>I&#39;d love to change the world, but they wont gimme the source code to it
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