Bring on SNAP, baby!<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Kristian Kielhofner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kkielhofner@star2star.com">kkielhofner@star2star.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
On 12/2/08, Anthony Minessale <<a href="mailto:anthony.minessale@gmail.com">anthony.minessale@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Naturally, either way is stupid.<br>
<br>
Word.<br>
<br>
> The whole idea of putting the transport in a uri param is equally stupid to<br>
> using 2 different protocol names but since SIP is the descendant of http it<br>
> they decided to stick with the stupidity of http/https and have sip/sips<br>
> which is almost as if it was designed to break all software trying to keep<br>
> up with url syntax.<br>
<br>
Too late now.<br>
<br>
> If they are going to insist on using text params you'd think something like<br>
> transport=foo;security=tls would be even *more* flexable in case alternate<br>
> methods to encrypt crop up.<br>
<br>
I can agree with you here...<br>
<br>
URI parameters in SIP have come to be the catch all for random junk<br>
that doesn't seem to fit anywhere else. Note that "random junk"<br>
includes everything from transport, to number portability, to CICs, to<br>
ISUP-OLI and on.<br>
<br>
Even in my world setting up proxies, UAs, etc to parse out the<br>
various crap people put in SIP URI params is a hassle. A big one.<br>
<br>
What a mess!!!<br>
<br>
> This is, of course, the first step into a lengthy 12 hour discussion on how<br>
> stupid SIP and url/text based<br>
> protocols are.<br>
<br>
I like them but I'm weird.<br>
<br>
> I dare someone to crank up the pcap on a box doing SIP presence for 20<br>
> phones and "read"<br>
> the 1200 byte messages with all kinds of hyeroglyphic url syntax and<br>
> embedded xml payloads and write<br>
> up a paper on how much "sense" it makes to have it be "readable".<br>
<br>
I do it all the time. I think it's quite usable. ngrep provides a<br>
small enough binary and the ability to match on text. Certainly<br>
easier to use, especially on embedded systems without the luxury of<br>
dedicated protocol decoders. With a simple ngrep binary I can debug<br>
any text based protocol I understand.<br>
<br>
Of course, turn on TLS and see how useful *any* of these tools are...<br>
<br>
The core SIP spec and authors can't be blamed for the various junk<br>
people have been putting in SIP bodies. If what's going on in the<br>
real world is any indication, that ship sailed long ago. At this<br>
point as long as implementations can at least handle multi-part<br>
sensibly and everyone specifies the correct MIME type I don't really<br>
care.<br>
<br>
Even nastier examples abound - embedded, encapsulated ISUP! How<br>
about GTD? What about Linksys phones using SIP INFO to serve<br>
directories? Man I could go on and on...<br>
<br>
I'm not going to write a paper about it but I don't think it's that<br>
bad. Maybe I'm not just weird; maybe I'm a masochist! :)<br>
<br>
> PS<br>
><br>
> supposedly sofia can support sctp,<br>
> someone should try it.<br>
<br>
That would be cool. For anyone wanting to try, various SERs support<br>
SCTP. Cisco gateways do too.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Kristian Kielhofner<br>
<a href="http://blog.krisk.org" target="_blank">http://blog.krisk.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.submityoursip.com" target="_blank">http://www.submityoursip.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.astlinux.org" target="_blank">http://www.astlinux.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.star2star.com" target="_blank">http://www.star2star.com</a><br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><br>